Break Time

Well, the seaon comes to an inglorious end. Lots of changes look to be on the future. David (lefty) Akers, Alex Smith, Dashon Goldson, Ted Ginn, Leonard Davis, Jonathan Gooodwin, Larry Grant, Ricky Jean, Randy Moss, and Delanie Walker (among a few other backups) are all UFAs. Frankly a lot of these guys look to leave. I’d put Alex, Goldson, Ginn, L Davis, Goodwin, and Randy (what, me try?) on the goodbye list.

Grant proved to be an able back up last year when Willis went down. He’s a keeper. Ricky Jean may not be big enoung in the middle, but he’s a solid back up on the line.  He stays. The rest?  Goodwin’s old, maybe a one year deal. L Davis is a possible keeper, but we have Kilgore and Looney waiting in the wings. Alex? Please. If he wants to stick around an be a backup, he’s a fool. It’s all in his court. Moss? Fuck him. If he can’t get up for a Super Bowl then see ya. Ginn? 4th string WR and a fading punt returner. Bye. Goldson wants a huge payday. Take the 3/25 from 3 years ago, or adios muchacho. Walker? He’s too inconsistent. he has great games followed by games (like the Atl game) where balls clank off his hands like, uh, things that bounce off other things. Sue me, I’m tired.

The Niners have a ton (14) of picks and can afford to get some good FA WRs, CBs, or whatever they don’t nail in the draft by. The core of the team is solid, and they should be able to fill ouyt the roster going forward.

I’m out of here for a while. See y’all next week. Time to forget me some football and hit the slopes. Love that run off to the right there off the Lincoln Chair at Sugar Bowl.

About unca_chuck

Lifelong SF 49ers, SF Giants, and Golden State Warriors fan
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171 Responses to Break Time

  1. snarkk says:

    Pretty much with you on all that. Moss? Gimme a break. Bringing him back would be a waste of a WR spot. He said in SB media week he wasn’t happy being a “decoy”. So, make him happy and cut him loose to fly with the other GOAT ducks.
    Delanie, I’m on the fence. He had a good SB, and did well on STs there and during the season. He’s a handy guy, good in the locker room, he’s just not dependable to catch the damn ball. At the right price, he stays. Maybe. I’d see what’s out there in the draft and FAs for better TE options.
    Kickers? Akers obvioiusly gone. That’s the least of worries. Tons of guys kick 80% plus now.
    Got to get a freekin big, fast receiver that can go get the ball. I can’t believe we’re two years into Harbaugh time and STILL the WR corps is below average. That MUST be fixed, especially now with a guy at QB that can really chuck the rock. Keenan Allen works for me…

    • snarkk says:

      BTW, Alex has to go. Keep him at $8,5M for a backup? Silly talk. Trade him for whatever best package of player(s) and/or picks you can get and be done.
      We must shed this team of the Alex, and move onward into the Kap era…

    • Alleykat says:

      Snarkk i like Keenan as well,size,speed the whole package.Problem is he will probably be off yhe board the time the Niners pick.He’s rated highly.
      Heard talk Niners could be interested in Seabass Janakowski.Raiders need draft picks,Niners have plenty.If they could land him with say a second or third with a few lower picks six or seven,that could work.He is up their in age but can still boom them.Just a thought.

      • Irish Kevin says:

        Sorry Kat, but no old dudes, there will be plenty of young kickers in the draft. I would rather give them a shot.

  2. unca_chuck says:

    By no means do i think Alex stays. his $$$ is too high for a backup and he wants to be a starter.

    If he stays, then I’m baffled beyond belief. I don;t think the Niners offer him anything. Jed’s trying to generate some buzz around him. and there should be some interest, seeing the crap in the draft, and the lousy FA class. Trade for Flynn? Good luck. Build a team around Mike (woof) Vick? Nope. There’s few good options, and Alex is head and shouldersd above the dreck available.

  3. Nipper says:

    Goodbye Alex. Chuck on the slopes? Yikes

  4. barleyfreak says:

    Alex will be gone. All the talk otherwise is a smokescreen, or too many bong hits. Moss is gone too. I’ve read all year about how great he is in the locker room, and everyone looks up to him, etc. But his act pre-SB and what often appears as a lackadaisical effort on the field has worn thin. Still as pointed out by snarkk, we are unacceptably thin at WR. I still think Jenkins will be a bust (for a first rounder, anyway).

    Best guestimate on keeping: Goldson, Goodwin, Grant, Ricky-Jean, Walker.

    Leaving: Smith, Moss, Ginn, Davis, Akers.

    I want to pipe in on the previous talk about JH being wound tight, sideline antics, etc. For the record, I think he HURTS the team with that shit. I think he had them wound up too tight. There is a balance between being super focused and being relaxed. You need both, IMO. I also concur with NF’s comment about how JH’s antics and tantrums on the sidelines cannot but detract from his focus on situational playcalling, time clock management, etc., not to mention that constantly browbeaten officials eventually are going to either tune you out or disrespect/dislike you to the point they might even subconsciously give the opposition the benefit of the doubt on calls. It’s not suppose to be a popularity contest, I get that, but being a prick that whines after EVERY single little call IMO not only doesn’t gain you shit, it takes something away.

    As for those that say, hey I’ll take JH and his NFCCG/SB appearances in a heartbeat, I’m a fan first, so how can I disagree with that? Really, I can’t, but it doesn’t mean that he’s got a fucking halo on and is above criticism. As Spit alluded, the guy could be so much BETTER if he figured out that screaming your way through the process is really in the end not the best way.

    So as far as the “I don’t give a shit as long as he wins” mantra, I have to say that I DO give a shit, and think that less whining, less tantrums, and some fucking grace in defeat is going help his decision making in pressure moments as well as filter down to his players and the result will actually be…less defeats.

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      There is also the issue that continuing to act like this could mean not winning down the line. So far the team has been down with Jimbo but there is the risk that if he acts too much the fool that could change. If he loses the locker room we’re right back to the gruesome endgame of the last two regimes. There is probably a time to get tough with the officials – but if you think that time is a dozen or two dozen times a game, you’ve got a problem.

    • Spitblood says:

      The question is what’s the agent for change for Harbaugh? Is it a mentor like John Madden reaching out? Is it the blogs that question Harbaugh? Is it the media? Jim Harbaugh knows he has to handle things with grace and class. After the Super Bowl, when talking about the refs, he said, “I want to handle this with class,” then he spoke about the refs. And what does Harbaugh always say, “Moving forward with humble hearts?” Jim knows the value of class and dignity as a head coach and what kind of longevity that affords him. “But thoughts and deeds give nose bleeds when trying to convert”- Sir Walter Spitblood.

      This Super Bowl loss could change Harbaugh. It’s widely believed that Jim had the better roster. That points the finger at Jim. Mike Holmgren, after losing the Super Bowl, said he went to a dark place for the entire off season. I don’t wish a dark place on anyone…… well, except Skeebers, Berger, Bullit/Unca/Tommy/DirtDiver, Rob and Twinfan…. and Sarah Palin, but Jim Harbaugh needs some serious pain to move him off his perch.

      I’ve longed believed that sports writers look to blogs to mine for ideas. I think this blog gets about as much professional traffic as Billy Joe Bob’s worm circus (whatever that means), so I’m thinking of blogging these very thoughts on a site where they would take it to Jim at a press conference. Maiocco might. Cam might. I’m certain the lesbian father and son tandem at the Press Dem would, but who’d listen? But I think Lowell writing an article about it might at first make Jim pissed, but then others would say, “Yeah, that is THE problem.” Who knows?

      Either way, Jim needs to change three areas – how he interacts with his team, the officials and the media. This team played tight, made too many mistakes, and it cost Jim the Super Bowl. But all things happen for a reason. The Harbaugh Bowl happened because the contrast between Jim and John can’t be ignored. The better person won….. as it should be.

  5. unca_chuck says:

    Yeah, it’ll be telling to see how this next season goes. The division is infinitely more difficult this season, and Sea at least looks real good. StL is coming on. If AZ ever got a line and a QB, they’d be tough themselves. It can turn around pretty quickly.

  6. unca_chuck says:

    My point being, if they get beaten up in the division, and Harbaugh continues down this road of hypersensitive-to-everything shit, the players could very well tune him out as well. At this point I think everything’s cool, but seeing how JH reacts to a bad stretch of games remains to be seen. He’s hitting the 3rd year. The year that took down both his predecessors. But it was Walsh’s crowning year.

    Interesting to say the least.

  7. twinfan1 says:

    I would hope AS leaves but I don’t rule out them keeping him. They will *not* go with Tolzien as the 2, with Kap’s risk factor for injury, they’re going to get a vet to back up CK anyway. Anyone decent will cost bucks and the best bof the FAs is probably Jason Campbell so they’d have to trade for one. Shit, they could end up giving Alex a RAISE to stay… just kidding, but no team needs two good QBs more than we do.

  8. Chico says:

    Have a good time up there Chuck.. I’m taking my kids to see snow for the first time in a couple weeks.. Looking forward to it.

  9. twinfan1 says:

    Chuck, you seemed to have a different attitude about Harbaugh’s whining and bitching when you posted about this on the Flap. Do you think his conduct is acceptable or not? I’m genuinely asking a question. Here you seem to agreeing with the others who find his antics distasteful. Barley said it best-
    :”So as far as the “I don’t give a shit as long as he wins” mantra, I have to say that I DO give a shit, and think that less whining, less tantrums, and some fucking grace in defeat is going help his decision making in pressure moments as well as filter down to his players and the result will actually be…less defeats.”
    On the Flap you say “And, please. Harbaugh’s whining? Sure he is. He should be pissed about it. Show me someone who accepts horrible officiating and I’ll show you a loser. There were 3-4 non-calls on those last 3 plays. He goes ballistic? Christ. this shows the players he’s got their back. Frankly, I don’t give a shit if it isn’t the ‘proper’ way to lose. I’m sure he’ll be a little more concilliatory later on, but now? Fuck that. I’d be furious too. 2 years, 2 deep playoff runs, and this is the thanks he gets? I don;t agree with what he does all the time, but really, this team is instantly in the Super Bowl hunt on the strength of his coaching. He ruffles some feathers along the way? I say tough shit. ”
    Where do you stand? That’s a reasonable question, I’d appeciate it if you answer in a reasonable manner.

  10. 12th man says:

    Been meaning to say this and keep forgetting. Chris Culliver is a good CB. He played well in most games and very well in some. He was overly aggressive in the SB and paid the price for it and will be better for the experience.
    Brown and Culliver will make a good starting tandem.

    • Alleykat says:

      Agree 12th man.I really like Tarell Brown,dude is gonna be a pro-bowler IMO in the future.Culliver just got caught up in the SB hype,and it fucked up his game in Nawlins.He is agressive and I like that,he’s a keeper.
      Chucky really wants Goldson gone.That’s just stupid.Dude is one of the best Safety’s in the game.He is a Text book tackler,and most of his fines the refs hit him up for were BS,he had a few legit,but most were not helmet to helmet.
      Goldson brings the Lumber like Ronny Lott always did,nothing wrong with that.
      If im the Niners,im considering dumping Whitner,and getting a heavy hitter like Matt Elam S
      Florida,or TJ McDonald S USC .

      • 12th man says:

        I see it the same way Kat. Whitner is past his sell by date. Goldson is top 5 at the position, maybe a little better. Carlos has maybe 1 good year, so in my opinion we need a safety and a third CB to cover the slot cause Carlos is a tick slow there.

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        I’d rather keep Goldson than Whitner, even at a *somewhat* higher price. The other safety should be better in pass defense. Culliver plays the man well, the ball not so well. Let’s see how things look after another year. In any case, we need help in the secondary. At least try to push Rogers off the roster, and find a FS.

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        Per Grant Cohn’s rantings: Whitner gave up 12 touchdowns and a 130.6 QB rating this season according to Pro Football Focus.

        That is even worse than I expected.

  11. Alleykat says:

    Yeah Twin,im “All In” in what Jimbo brings to this team.He has the team running thru walls for him.He has the utmost “Fire” of any coach in the league.He’all about “Fucking Winning” and he has,and turned this Franchise into a juggernaut for years to come.2 yrs Championship game & SB,fucking everyone should be doing cartwheels on this turnaround.
    Jimbo is so far ahead of the curve on all coaches and DC right now.Coaches and DC especially are having nightmares going forward trying to figure out how to stop the pistol offense,the read option out of it,the multiple formations they can run out of it,the fantastic speed factor going forward,with James,Hunter,Kap blazing downfield,still a good dose of Frank Gore,who Jimbo scaled back on the carries this year, which was also smart coaching, as he was fresh and hungry going into the playoffs.And devastating blocks by one of my favorite unsung player Bruce Miller,who loves the pistol and gets involved now more then did when Alex was in.
    Keep doing what your doing Jimbo,cause it’s all good with me.Same goes for Trent Ballke,and his “Great Godfather Voice” between him and Jimbo,gonna go great in the War Room on draft day.These 2 no how to find the talent.Ballke blew me away,and im sure others on the Aldon
    Smith pick,and wow that was golden.Same with Jimbo,who even coveyed to his Dad ((Jack) under total secrecy that he was gonna move up in the draft and take Colin Kaepernick,who Jim thought was the best player in the “Whole” Draft. That’s showing some major “Cajones” with that prediction,but in the end,he was Damm Right Kappy will be the bestfrom that draft!!!!

  12. 12th man says:

    The Ravens are erecting a statue to Ray Lewis already. How long till someone duct tapes a knife to its hand I wonder?

  13. Nipper says:

    Jim’s antics don’t worry me. Just keep bringing in the talent and coaching them up and winning will solve all these other little things.

  14. twinfan1 says:

    12 and Kat: “Style” is not neccassrily a synonym for “class”…anyway- as others here has said, handling defeat *and* victory with class *is* a value many think to be important. But forget that- his coaching lost the game. For the second game in a row they were stream rolled early, and on the pivotal 4th down play, he had a TO his pocket that should have been used, instead a green QB had to audible out of the play call into a low percentage fade route. The TO was worthless if they were stopped, he *had* to use it.
    I’ve never questioned his coaching ability, but I’ll quote Barley again- a reasonable commenter who nails it with this: “less whining, less tantrums, and some fucking grace in defeat is going help his decision making in pressure moments as well as filter down to his players and the result will actually be…less defeats.”
    He’d already shown that his words have little value, he’d shown his lack of class in victory, now his lesson to the team in defeat is not to look within, but blame it on others.

  15. Flavor says:

    I’m as big of a Harbaugh fan as their is but he’s hardly perfect. He needs to stop going ballistic at every single penalty that’s called on his team. It’s hard to get any credibility with the refs when you’re basically calling them dumb asses every time they throw a flag. What ref is ever going to want to throw a make up call the Niners way with JH ranting like a lunatic on the sideline over every penalty? And it’s much smarter to save the sideline meltdown for penalties that are the most egregious. It’ll get the refs attention better.
    And I don’t know if this is Roman or Harbaugh or Fangio, but the team starts like shit in big games. Hell, their first half against the Cardinals was bad, too. It was incomprehensible to me to see us line up illegally ON THE FIRST PLAY OF THE SUPER BOWL. Why does it take this team an entire half to start playing well? They gotta fix that.
    I also think he could act like a man a little more after tough losses. Give the opposition credit and move on. Blaming the loss on the non-call was bush league stuff. That isn’t why they lost the super bowl.
    Finally, he could disclose more to the media. I’m down with him playing it close to the vest in the week before a game but called Justin Smith’s torn tri an “arm injury or an elbow injury” for like 2 straight weeks? Disclosing the actual injury is a team secret?
    I’m also done with all the *mighty men* talk and all the rest of his hyperbole.
    But other than all that, I fuckin’ love the guy. 🙂 🙂 🙂
    Ok dudes, good bloggin’ with you. With P/C’s reporting in 5 days I’ll be spending most of my blog time at my own blog. Check in when you can.
    Go Niners.

  16. Flavor says:

    Oh an Chuck, I forgot to include it in my above post, but THANK YOU for all that you did this year to keep this blog humming all season long. The work you put in to the volume of posts, especially leading into the super bowl, was fantastic. It’s the only Niner blog I ever go to and it’s because it’s the best Niner blog out there…….

  17. Spitblood says:

    Culliver is now putting the blame of the Jacoby Jones TD on Whitner. Culliver is quickly making himself persona non grata in SF. It’ll be interesting to see how the 49er organization handles Culliver from here.

    Regarding offensive free agents, two names pop out at me: Titans’ TE Jarid Cook and KC WR Bowe. Both would be upgrades over Walker and Moss. I don’t think this team needs anymore speed on offense.
    Releasing or trading Smith gives the 49ers a lot more wiggle room. I just can’t see the 49ers keeping Smith. Tolzien can win games while Kaep heals. If Kaep’s out for the season, the 49ers are screwed with Smith or Tolzien.

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      Cook has better hands and production than DW but is not a very good blocker. The real problem, though, is he would still not be an every down player here in SF with VD around. Apparently that is one of his issues in Tennessee. I can’t see him wanting to come here. Too bad, he’s good and only 25. The Titans might also franchise him – they franchised their last TE, Bo Scaife, two years running.

      Bowe is the kind of big RZ target we could have used last week. I’d at least have him in and see what kind of money he is looking for. If he cares even a little he’s already got “No Moss” beat.

  18. Spitblood says:

    I still like Randy and think he does care, but in his old age he’s not physical enough. I think Bowe would be far more physical, and I don’t think Bowe’s just an end zone threat. Cook doesn’t have to be an every down TE. He could be a backup and do just fine in that role because I do know he has good hands. I don’t know about his blocking or his franchise potential with the Titans. I also like Revis, obviously. But if the 49ers are going to be free agent players, they need to move Alex Smith.

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      The question is not whether Jared Cook could excel in that role, it’s whether he would be willing to accept the role. He has apparently been unhappy being pulled on some downs in TN. I’d love to have a big target with soft hands at TE – VD and DW are NOT prototypical TEs and it is sometimes really annoying not to have that, despite VD’s big plays. If we don’t find that kind of guy in FA, we should look for it in the draft. And keep developing Celek, who has some potential.

      Bowe would help everywhere on the field, but he will be more help in the Red Zone than a pure speed guy. Speed kills, especially between the 20s, and there is much to be said for taking the top off the other guy’s defense, but in the Red Zone big bodies help – particularly if the league keeps allowing certain teams (Hi Douchebag Pete!) to play uninhibited 60s style pass defense.

      AS is gone. He thinks he deserves to be a starter, and that is not going to happen here. The team has made it’s choice and will go forward with CK. It would be nice if we can get something for Alex, but regardless, he is gone.

  19. This off season is going to be easier than last year’s. It’s disappointing losing a Super Bowl but for me easier/better than losing the NFC Title Game. We’ll be better next year but so will the NFC West. Gonna be a dogfight- or a knife fight in a phone booth per GG.

    I do agree Jimbo needs to chill a bit more with the refs. It’s reasonable to think he’ll be a better coach and person going forward.

  20. twinfan1 says:

    They don’t have big holes personnel wise, but there *are* serious questions- Fangio’s unit staggered home, and his units have *always* deteriorated yearly. When Jimbo gets out of anger management he needs to demonstrate that rumored Walsh-ian ruthlessness and put Vic out to pasture. Culliver should be easily replaceable, FSU placekicker Dustin Hopkins should be available in the 5th or 6th round to replace Akers, Soapy goes, Moss goooooooonnnne..
    We have a boatlod of draft picks- but HarBaalke had an awful draft in 2012- can they rebound? The only guy who made an impact was LaMichael.
    They need a solid vet QB, that’s a given. Tolzien is a scout QB, that’s all. Despite all the AS is outta here talk, that’s hardly a given, alas. Someone has been buying from Walter White when he can say the 49ers are fucked if Smith plays. I suspect they *will* move him, and hope that happens- but they need a replacement- a guy who they can go 19-5-1 with.
    And they need a wide out ? Why is this so hard here? Good wide outs are a dime a dozen in any draft…
    Most of all they need their HC to mature..

  21. NJ49er says:

    As FA unfolds, Goldson’s asking price is the topic.
    Philly has a big need at S and tons of Cap Cash to spend.

    I’m totally onboard for an upgrade on our Deep Middle coverage.
    Watch Buffalo FS Jairus Byrd.
    He could hit the FA market if Buffalo doesn’t ante up.

    Wouldn’t be a terrible move to lose Goldson if Byrd became an option.
    Goldson is the higher profile commodity but, I think Byrd is the better cover guy.
    Whitner is an excellent leader in the Secondary but, he can’t cover worth a lick.

    Curious to see how Baalke has Trenton Robinson slotted on the current depth chart.
    Have to think he’s in line as a SS?

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      Whitner gave up a 130 QB rating to the opposition this season. You have to consider *anyone* else for next year. New guy, Robinson, Spilman, whatever.

      • NJ49er says:

        Saw that Grump, he’s rarely close when it comes to coverage.
        Great tackler as a SS goes, but we’re being exposed back there when the Pass Rush disappears.

        Have to be concerned about that in April or FA.

        All depends on how we do with Goldson I imagine.

  22. NJ49er says:

    Fortunately for us, the S class is deep.
    We should score a good DB or 2 come April.

  23. NJ49er says:

    2 DEs I’m impressed with are Corey Lemonier from Auburn and Sam Montgomery from LSU.
    Either of these 2 guys could land in our lap at 31.

    A later Rd option for me is David Bass from MO Western St.
    Many have him projected as a 4-3 guy but I think he’s athletic enough to be considered in the 3-4.
    If you can get him in Rd 4 or 5, you could easily rotate him as a DE while he learns the ropes.

    He knows how to get after the QB.

    Saw that we extended a Future Contract to Lamar Divens already too.
    He’s a load of a NT at 340.
    Might offer us the option to forego a high pick at the position?

  24. Spitblood says:

    Safety and NT/ DE class is deep. Good for us.

    • NJ49er says:

      We could score on a CB too Spit.

      As we progress through March with our Alex drama and other in-house FA concerns, it should give us some ideas where Baalke might be leaning.

      As we all know, when the pass rush underachieves, the Secondary suffers.
      Have to think long and hard about the DE position for sure.

  25. NJ49er says:

    Another guy that is interesting is Tyrann Mathieu, AKA Honey Badger, formerly of LSU.
    Kid was in the mix for The Heisman and had a phenominal run at LSU.

    Hard to know what to expect since he had a bout with drug issues and was released.
    Have to wonder if the drug habit contributed to that performance of course.

    He’s going to end up with all sorts of red flags, for good reason.
    However, the kid was a terror with LSU in the Defensive Backfield and as a PR.
    St Louis took a chance on a similar risk with Janoris Jenkins, so we’ll see whether Tyrann gets another chance to rewrite a checkered College career.

    He’d be an excellent addition as a late Rd ‘take a chance-type’ guy if he can convince the Coaches and GMs he’s clean.

    • NJ49er says:

      I just read that Tyrann got an invite to the Combine too.

      • NJ49er says:

        Another guy with a Combine invite that could be a PR threat for us is WR Ace Sanders from So Carolina.
        Little dude, probably a slot guy at the Pro level, but has the PR ability we could be interested in.

      • Spitblood says:

        I want big bodies in this year’s draft. The way this draft is shaping up, I think the 49ers draft defensive players and bring in offensive free agents. I really hope the 49ers package up draft picks and trade up into the first round. It’s an interesting game, but I think the 49ers should use a late round draft pick on a qb who can run and throw. You take Kaep out and put in Tolzien or Smith and you’ve got a different skill set and it’s a big adjustment mid-game – could mean a loss. The interesting game this off season is that if Baalke uses a late round pick on a qb, he tips his hand that he wants to trade Smith, or release him.

        I’d love to see the 49ers this off season dump Smith and use the money on Bowe and Cook. Then they should package up picks and move up into the first round for a stud DT, NT or DE. After that, the 49ers need to draft
        1.) DT
        2.) CB
        3.) Safety
        4.) Pass Rusher
        5.) RB
        6.) TE
        7.) QB
        I understand the 49ers have more picks than this, but I think they should use their extra picks to move up.

        You dump Smith and find some studs on defense and bring in Bowe and Cook, we’re right back in the Super Bowl. But again, I want big bodies. I don’t like all these smaller guys we drafted last year.

        Last year’s draft isn’t a bust. James is tough and quick. Jenkins will take time. Looney will be a stud in time. It’s hard to have a draft class make an impact when you’re a Super Bowl team. It’s not the 2011 draft (that was incredible), but it’s still decent. I mean, it’s not Scot McCloughan’s first draft with Balmer and Rachal. McCloughan’s draft could get a guy a one way ticket to Calgary. Speaking of Canada – Marc Trestman is going to flat out suck in Chicago. Chicago will be one of the worst teams in the NFL for the next five years. Mark my words.

        What else can I gabber out? Oh….. I could honestly see the 49ers working really hard this off season to upgrade the secondary. Pass rush takes some time to develop unless you either have a high pick or get a guy like Freeney and make him a specialist. For my money (NJ posed the coverage or rush question), I’m all about the coverage in this year’s draft because there’s no excuse for the lack of coverage in the playoffs, but there was an excuse for a lack of pass rush.

  26. Spitblood says:

    Here’s the qb the 49ers should draft in the later rounds to be their 3rd stringer, and eventual backup to Kaep – Matt Scott of Arizona. He reminds me of Kaep, and he’s projected to be a late round draft pick. CBS sports has him as a 7th rounder. I bet he’s more like a 4th rounder. He’s a poor man’s Kaep.

    • NJ49er says:

      Not sold on Bowe, his hands are questionable.
      I’d take Cook at the right price.

      I’d also go for Defense if Goldson isn’t a reasonable re-sign.
      Add Jairus Byrd there.
      Add DT Knighton from Jacksonville as a possibility also.

      There are several impressive TEs invited to Indy for the Combines.
      Could see a decent option in the 5th Rd?
      I’ll try my best to see how they perform.

      Most curious about the DBs and WRs though.
      I’m not sold on any one WR at this this point, I’m very curious about Marquess Wilson.
      He’s got the potential to be the deep threat is his predictions are accurate.
      Read that he’s got 4.4 speed.

  27. unca_chuck says:

    AK, my problem with Goldson is his $$$ demands. I’d offer him the original 3/25 deal from 2 years ago.He wants a big money deal. No fucking way. Take it or leave it. He’s pushed this 2x and been slapped down 2x. He’s not as good as he thinks. If Jerry jerkoff wants to overpay, go for it. Whitner’s under contract, so I don’t see a change there. He may get beaten out by a rook/FA, but he’s not leaving.

    Mike, my 1:02 sums up my feelings:

    unca_chuck says:

    February 7, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    My point being, if they get beaten up in the division, and Harbaugh continues down this road of hypersensitive-to-everything shit, the players could very well tune him out as well. At this point I think everything’s cool, but seeing how JH reacts to a bad stretch of games remains to be seen. He’s hitting the 3rd year. The year that took down both his predecessors. But it was Walsh’s crowning year.

    Interesting to say the least.

    I don’t really care how he deals with the press. The officials is more worrisome, but not that much. He appears to schmooze them pre-game with the best of them. It’s how he deals with the players that is first and foremost. The Smith deal may have hurt his credibility at first, but since they made it to the Super Bowl, his decision was confirmed as the correct one. He APPARENTLY handled it fine with the players, because there was little repercussion, but a lot of that falls on Alex. Whatever. That is old news now. If the players dig his antics on the sideline, who cares how it looks to the talking heads out there?

    • Spitblood says:

      But…. if the team plays tight and makes mistakes because of Harbaugh’s mindset (ultra prepared, demanding excellence from everyone — refs, media and players, and can’t loosen up) then it’ll cost the 49ers two ways. It’ll cost the 49ers with the refs and with team playing too tight – really just not enjoying their work. Jim needs to change his approach. He needs to loosen up.

      And Chuck….. did you see that Matt Scott kid out of Arizona? He’s the future 49er backup to Kaep.

      • NJ49er says:

        I still love Tavon Austin too.
        Problem is, he’s a little dude.
        He had nearly 3,500 yds in receptions at WVU.
        Converted RB, he’s Hester with hands and route running skills.

        He does bring some major upside though as a P/KR option.
        The answer to Ginn.
        My guess is, he’s going to replace Welker in NE however.

      • NJ49er says:

        Here’s a pretty quick glimpse of his Bio regarding Big Play Ability –

        “Arguably one of the nations’ biggest playmakers with the ball in his hand. Transitions up field instantly after the catch. Possesses great peripheral vision, gets from 0-60 mph instantly and can maintain 5th gear through cuts making him extremely dangerous after the catch. Consistently made defenders look ‘silly’ trying to corral him in one-on-one situations. Displays an extra gear to out run pursuit and take it the distance when catching day light. Certainly has the top-end speed to stretch the field but lacks the size, strength and leaping ability to consistently win one-on-one battles”.

    • NJ49er says:

      The Swiss Army description fits Delanie well.
      Hands and height are somewhat of a concern but, he’s a weapon.
      Remember, he’s a converted WR. Not your prototypical TE.
      Dude can block and command attention.

      Goldson will earn a decent offer.
      Unfortunately for him, he’s limited by the FTag option.

      Have to believe Ice is history due to age.

      Taller, more prolific Red Zone threats can still be added in April.
      Young guys like Escobar, Dion Sims, Fauria, Vance McDonald and Toilolo could be had in the mid to later Rds to bolster the attack.

      • NJ49er says:

        What we need is a deep threat.
        A viable, consistent scoring target.
        Very curious to see what the heck we have with AJ, Kyle and Mario all being healthy and productive..

        Ricardo Lockette being extended on a Future Contract says something positive also.
        We continue to have our problems in the Red Zone.
        A leaper like Fitzgerald and Boldin would fit nicely in this puzzle.

      • NJ49er says:

        Manningham would have been huge for use had he been available in NOLA.
        Vernon is a nightmare for LBs to cover, Crabtree has shown that he and Kaep have the chemistry needed to connect when needed too.

        Our weakness is the slot guy, which either Mario or Kyle can answer.
        Need that deep threat.
        That can be answered with a taller TE with hands or a WR.

        Watch these WRs during the Combines –
        Justin Hunter
        Quinton Patton
        Markus Wheaton
        Marquess Wlison

        Crabtree has solidified his ability to be a 1.
        We need complimentary guys now.

  28. NoFear49er says:

    Goldson has improved his play. I’m inclined to agree with Harbaugh’s public statement on rewarding good players. I also have to believe he’ll be more agreeable and realistic if a reasonable extension is offered. If not there’s always the franchise tag.

    I think Walker stays, too. He just needs to include some intense jugs time in his workout routine. The rest of his play is pretty good.

  29. NoFear49er says:

    In other news; LEO run amok in SoCal murdering innocents and LE running scared chasing him shooting up more innocents, can the Kenyan’s plea to disarm law enforcement be far behind now?

    • unca_chuck says:

      Only you, NoFear, can tie those murders to Obama.Truly dickish, skippy. I was in LA last weekend and the place is nuts. Cops are shooting at shadows. They shot 2 women who were delivering papers early Friday morning. One was a 71 year old woman who they shot in the back. The other was shot in the hand.

  30. unca_chuck says:

    I mean really. All these morons worried about 2nd amendment rights, which aren’t under attack anyway. Meanwhile, the feds can read, sieze, eavesdrop, and pretty much do anything they want to violate all the other amendments.

  31. unca_chuck says:

    Like I said, if you need a 50 round magazine to take down a deer, try fishing.

  32. unca_chuck says:

    Goldson has not improved compared to last year. He’s a big hitter who imtimidates, but also gets out of position and beaten on deep balls. I’ve said for 3 years he’s better suited as a SS not a FS. Culliver could very well move to FS. But with Whitner and Culliver signed, the possibility Culliver moves to FS and Goldson goes is very likely.

    Besides, Harbaugh doesn’t have much cred involving what he says about players.

  33. Spitblood says:

    The NFC is interesting right now. The Saints have taken five steps back but Payton and Brees make a formidable opponent every year they’re together. The Saints have lost credibility, draft picks and a defensive coordinator only to replace Williams and Spags with the highly overrated Rob Ryan. Regardless how good the Saints offense is once again in 2013, Rob Ryan will keep the Saints from truly competing for Super Bowls. Rob’s been with the Browns, Raiders, Cowboys and now Saints in the last, recent Spitblood memory.

    The Giants really can turn it on and off, and last year, after a Super Bowl win, they shut it down. This year they’ve dumped Boley (sp?) and Bradshaw. I could see Brandon Jacobs resigning with the Giants, but I can’t see him being an every down back. Perry Fewell will fix his secondary, and if the Giants get linebackers, they could be right back in the hunt in 2013. I honestly think the Giants will be the 49ers greatest challenge in 2013. The Giants have owned us, but they haven’t played against Kaep.

    The Packers are still a good football team even if they lose Driver, Finley and Jennings. And that’s a big if. But Woodson is getting older, and the Packers still don’t have a run game or a real pass rush threat outside Clay. The Packers will always be competitive with Rogers and McCarthy, but they’ll need guys like Nelson, the car salesman, and Cobb to step up. And Ted Thompson will have to find some talent that McCarthy can immediately start if the Packers truly want to compete for Super Bowls in 2013.

    The Seattle Seahawks just lost their defensive coordinator. He was replaced by a former Seattle D line coach who was coaching in college last year. Seattle is tough and physical. They’re strong at the point of attack, and have players like Lynch who don’t back down. If Seattle gets some speed on the edge, look out. It’ll be a battle royale for the NFC West this year between the 49ers and Seahawks. Someone needs to get a real good hit on Russell Wilson. Kid’s too cocky for his own good.

    The 49ers are quite possibly the cream of the NFC crop. They are tough, physical and fast. Their qb and head coach are revolutionizing the offensive game as we know it. Much of the 49ers’ success in 2013 will be contingent on how Manningham, Williams and Hunter heal from ACL injuries. Trading Smith could bring immediate help by freeing up cap space for future free agent acquisitions.

    • NJ49er says:

      One thing about NO,GB and NYG. All have issues on Defense.

      We run with authority, none of them do.

      Still comes down to Defense and a ground game.
      Stop the pass with all 3 of them and you stand a punchers chance of taking a game from them.

      Seattle has the CBs we don’t and, they run the ball.
      We need a pass rush and a Secondary.
      Our LBs are the cream of the crop in the NFC.

      Add Kaep and some success in the Red Zone and we’ll be in the conversation with anyone.

      • NJ49er says:

        GB has no ability to stop the run.
        Same for NO.
        NYG will have David Wilson ready this year but they have issues deep.
        Giants get pressure however.
        Worked to beat Alex, not as easy with Kaep.

        Seattle stops the run, and the pass.
        They are the evil rival we need to contend with.
        Our focus should be on beating Seattle.
        They lack an elite pass rusher. They’ll grab one in April with their top Pick.
        Our OL has that trumped for now.
        We have to improve our Pass Rush and add to our Secondary at any cost.

        The guy we want next year is DE Jadaveon Clowney. So will everyone else.
        That’s a guy worth trading your Draft Load for.

    • NJ49er says:

      Seattle has arguably the best Secondary in our Division.
      If we don’t address our limitations back there we’ll be chasing them for the Division.

      They grabbed Earl Thomas and went after CBs.

      That’s where we need to be with this Draft.
      You get a stud S, ala Palamolou, Thomas, Berry, things get better quickly when people can’t get over the top.

  34. unca_chuck says:

    Seattle is the toughest team outside of SF. And they are pretty damn close. I’d put them over GB, NY, NO and any other pretender. And yeah, as we all saw, when our pass rush goes away the DBs struggle wildly. Both ends of that equation need to be addressed. And of course WR and TE. With all these picks we should be able to get ourselves a top line guy either for the rush or coverage. WRs shouldn’t be this hard to find. We had a bad string of injuries but still and all, there’s got to be more consistency. Manningham had a real bad injury, so there’s no guarantee he’ll even be ready.

    I think Walker goes. You’d have to think Ertz would be a steal if he’s near 31, but I think they go defense with their pick. Walker has very little value outside this team, so he’ll get offered a minimal deal. Maybe he gets other offers, but he’s so damn inconsistent.

    • NJ49er says:

      Could go either way with Delanie.
      Areas of need for us are also areas of depth in this Draft class.
      We could afford to keep Delanie, (at the right price of course) and, add a taller TE or WR to the mix.

      Granted, Mario is a big question on recovery time.
      AJ needs to show up.
      He and Mario are basically the same size, same guy.
      Not to mention, AJ has great speed. He just needs to get with the Pro game speed.
      Obviously Baalke knew he’d be a project of sorts and covered the gap with Mario and Moss.

      We need the deep threat. Either position can provide that.
      Several of the TEs I mentioned earlier are good options to Ertz and Eifert.
      I’d be looking S/CB at 31, if we stand pat in that slot.
      But, we certainly have enough Picks to deal up if that’s what Baalke has in mind.

      Seattle will probably steal one of the guys I’d like to have at DE since they’re in the market for a pass rusher.
      Irvin was a reach and totally lost against the run. He’s a one trick pony.

      We’ll have to find a second tier DE perhaps. See how it shakes out.

      I’d consider moving up for DT Sheldon Richardson too.
      We could see CB Bank, Trufant or even slide down for Amerson as I try to calculate Mock info.

      • NJ49er says:

        Toilolo, Ertz’s team mate, is a terror in the Red Zone.
        Probably a better blocker too.
        Kid has great hands, great size and numbers to prove it.

        Good mix of tall TEs with excellent production on the receiving side too.

    • NJ49er says:

      Money we recoup from Alex will help with our FAs.
      Just hope we can get a Pick or 2 for him.

      We have Garett Celek but he can’t catch much either.
      Have to get some ‘hands’ for Kaep beyond Crabtree.

  35. Spitblood says:

    Personally, I think the NFC comes down to the Seahawks, 49ers and Giants. Not to discredit the Saints, Packers or Redskins, but the big 3 are the Giants, ‘Hawks and Niners. I was talking with a friend of mine in New York last year and he said, “Just you watch…. the Giants won’t even make the playoffs.” He said he believed that because they turn their effort on and off. You give Coughlin and Reece a higher draft and they’ll fix their run game and their secondary….. and their effort.

    I’m confident the 49ers can and will find upgrades on defense in the draft. But I’d trade up. I think our coaching staff is so good we’ll find studs for the defensive line and secondary. I don’t think much of Trent Robinson. I think he’s a waste of time.

    NJ – you’ll be happy to know I’m starting to look at this upcoming draft and my genius will now be applied. My first love thus far is qb Matt Scott out of Arizona. I’ll start finding more gems we can talk about soon.

    • NJ49er says:

      Go for it Spit. I’m not paying an ounce of attention to QBs and RBs.
      I’m focused on the DBs, TEs and WRs in the Combine.
      We need to stop the pass and get points in the Red Zone.

      The TEs I mentioned all have great numbers both in receiving and TDs.
      All adds up to production. Toilolo is 6’8″.

      Robinson to me, is a slot CB perhaps? Too short IMO. But he hits and tackles.
      One thing all our DBs do is tackle well.

      As much as I love Elam from UF, he’s only 5’10”.
      I’d be looking for height.
      Whitner is never in the picture for the deep middle throw, bad recognition and too short.

      He can’t locate the ball, which says to me, he’s a S.
      Put him further back and let him keep his eyes toward the Offense.
      Once he’s turned around he doesn’t seem to know how to recover.

    • NJ49er says:

      The Top S, Kenny Vaccaro from TX could land with the Rams.
      Eric Reid from LSU is 6’2″ and wouldn’t be a bad consolation prize for us.

      Amerson is listed as a CB but has S experience. That’s why I’m high on him.
      He too is 6’2″ tall.
      Could find Amerson in Rd 2.

      My surprise Pick at 31 would be OC Barrett Jones from AL.
      However, I think either Looney or Kilgore will assume the OC duties.
      Will not surprise me at all if Goodwin is released either.

    • NJ49er says:

      If by chance, CB Banks landed in our lap at 31, he’s a 6’2″ tall CB also.
      Who knows what will come until it does, it’s great to see the number of options out there for us to consider while we wait the action to start.

  36. NoFear49er says:

    Chuck, that’s what I said, skippy. Read better before you post a nonsense reply.

    The same convoluted logic used to ban the guns that barely contribute a whit to the death-by-gun totals can now be expected to be equally applied to disarm law enforcement since one of them went off the deep end and killed innocents with one. Right, Skippy?

    I’m not the only one who sees the comparison of false logic used to push an agenda.

    Are you really stupid enough to think that if you limit magazine capacity or anything else for the law-abiding, the folks who, by definition, don’t give a shit about the law, will care much less comply? If that were true or even in the realm of feasibility Chicago and DC should be among the safest places on earth.

    Besides, who says I have to hunt deer to be armed? You?

    As far as Goldson, he has improved quite a bit. He rarely makes the mistakes he was making last year. Goldson plays the traditional SS role often. I don’t think Vic cares much about the labels.

    • NJ49er says:

      I’ll have to give that ‘labels’ thought some consideration NoFear49er.
      I’ve always called Goldson and Whitner SSs so, perhaps the scheme Vic employs doesn’t really discriminate?

      Nice for the purposes of laying the licks but, I’ve always felt the need for the ‘Ball Hawk’ back there.
      Hence my desire to see us looking to the Draft for that taller cover-type S.

    • unca_chuck says:

      Fine. Do nothing the problem fixes itself. Riiiiiight.

  37. Spitblood says:

    NJ – So far, regarding secondary play, I’m liking what I’m reading about Johnthan Banks, Xavier Rhodes, Darius Slay and Tharold Simon (all corners). I also like FSs Phillip Thomas out of Fresno State, and Tim McDonald’s son out of USC. Most of these guys are projected in rounds 2-4. But I haven’t checked them out on Youtube yet.

    • NJ49er says:

      The CBs are a deep group. I look at the tackles as PBU numbers on all these guys too.

      Check Amerson and Blidi Wreh-Wilson also Spit.
      Taller guys with some impressive numbers.
      Phillip Thomas looked good in the Sr Bowl, TJ not so much.
      TJ reminded me of Taylor Mays. Completely lost his man several times in the end zone. Hence, I took him off my list.

      But then again, my ‘List’ don’t mean squat.

    • NJ49er says:

      Couple of other impressive Safeties –
      Take a look at DJ Swearinger So Car.
      Little shorter at 6’0″ but makes a ton of plays.
      I’ve seen him play on several occasions.

      The kid Jonathan Cyprien from FL Intnl is a pit bull.
      Kid logged 365 tackles. That’s SICK.

  38. barleyfreak says:

    A lot of people bag on Walker, and I have too in the past, mainly because he can’t catch a fucking cold. But to be fair, he does pretty much EVERYTHING else really, really well. He is a grade A+ blocker that isn’t glamorous, doesn’t show up in the stats, but is an integral unsung part of the team. He also manages to get open a lot (or isn’t covered — can’t tell which), which is a double edge sword since he drops far too many. My gut says he’ll be back. And yeah, hit that jugs machine, young DropWalker.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if our first 3 picks are all on defense. DL, S/CB, OLB. If they pick the puny WR from WV I’m gonna puke. No small WR. Not early anyway. No way, no how.

    • NJ49er says:

      DropWalker, good call Barley.
      I feel the same way about Delanie, class act, jack of all trades.
      He wants to be here, it’s all about the coin. I kinda think Ice and Alex will provide some Cap Coin for guys like him and Goldson.
      We’ll see?

      Tavon Austin will probably be a luxury/need pick for NE.
      Highly unlikely we see him or spend a 1 on him.
      I just happen to like what he brings.
      We’re in need of a few other pieces obviously but, he’d be a guy I’d love to have.

    • NJ49er says:

      Ginn is our PR guy and I fully expect him to be playing elsewhere.
      I read that WR Chad Hall has some experience with PR duty… so?
      Perhaps him or another Draftee can cure that impending vacancy.

      I’m sure Baalke and Harbaugh have this stuff figured out already.
      We in the peanut gallery are relegated to endless weeks of speculation and keyboard research.

    • Spitblood says:

      I just don’t get why blocking is hard – therefore I don’t get why it’s desirable.. It doesn’t take much to square up a guy and stay in front of him. If you can’t do that, I don’t want you on the team. Here’s a thought – instead of drafting blockers and teaching them to catch, let’s draft receivers and teach them to block. Crabtree is gettin’ good at it.

      I don’t want Delanie Walker on this team. The dude can’t catch. That’s all there is to it. You can’t teach hands, but you can teach blocking. You can have Walker hit the jugs machine from now until kingdom come, it won’t matter. Being a good receiver is about body position and control, concentration and soft hands. Walker fails in all of these areas. If I was Kaep, I simply wouldn’t throw Walker the ball often, and the could become a problem. Scouts know. Jared Cook can catch the football. The dude has amazing hands. And don’t tell me he can’t block. Anyone can block. Anyone.

      Vernon and Delanie aren’t good receivers. Vernon has made huge plays but look at the placement of each football on those big plays. Vernon and Delanie both need the football on the numbers. Vernon won’t drop it if it’s on the numbers, Delanie still can.
      Let’s go after a TE who catches everything thrown to him no matter where it is. That’s Jared Cook.

      • NJ49er says:

        Delanie was a WR initially Spit.
        Apparently not fast enough to succeed at that position in the NFL.
        Just like slow CBs become Safeties, so is the transition for guys like Delanie.

        I think there is an issue between Alex and Kaep.
        These guys have to come together via reps together.
        Juggs guns are fine for speed but, nothing beats working with your QB.

        Cook may cost more, maybe less?
        Not a bad option if he becomes available.

      • Spitblood says:

        I know Delanie was a WR. You aren’t talkin’ to rookie hour here, NJ. I don’t care if he’s a converted Mormon, he can’t catch….. reliably.

        Just checked out on Youtube all those DBs I thought were second day picks (keep in mind the NFL now only does the first round on day one). Out of Tharold Simon, Darius Slay, Xavier Rhodes, Johnthan Banks, Phillip Thomas and TJ McDonald (taller DBs)…….. Rhodes and Phillip Thomas are by far the best. If Phillip Thomas is there in the second round, the 49ers should grab him. He actually looks like Earl Thomas (facial features), and he plays like Earl Thomas – but he’s a little taller. Xavier Rhodes simply has to be a first day pick. He’s amazing. Huge lower body, physical, fast with leaping ability. I haven’t seen a corner I was that impressed with in a long time. But Rhodes might even go top ten. I think, from what I saw, he’s that good.

      • NJ49er says:

        The WR point was to suggest that he had good enough hands that’s all.

        He’s a Cap decision now. I have no beef with him.
        As stated, I just think its a QB change issue mostly.
        I do appreciate that versatility he provides to the Offense.

        See what happens.

        No doubt we’ll have some excellent options at the DB position.

      • NJ49er says:

        After the Combines all these guys will get reevaluated and slotted all over the place.
        As is always the case in the Draft, it’s all speculation until the Picks are made.
        Trades and surprise Picks always throw off the pace and the talent selection of course.

        That’s where the good GMs seem to have that ability to target and slot the guys they need and, how to get them.

        Good Teams are good because their GMs and Scouts get this stuff right.
        Look no further than Jerruh to see why things never seem to work in Big Duh.

  39. Spitblood says:

    So far, guys I like are QB Matt Scott (Arizona), FS Phillip Thomas (Fresno), and CB Xavier Rhodes (Florida State)

    • NJ49er says:

      Keep doing your homework.
      Maybe we can post a Draft Board here in April and see how we do against Baalke.

    • NJ49er says:

      I started doing this with my oldest Son when we used Pro Football Weekly’s Draft Edition for info.
      He was about 10 at the time.

      He’s in his 30s now and we can do it via email.
      Very addicting.

      At least now the information is plentiful and you have the ability to view video.
      Plus televised coverage of the Combines. Jr GM Heaven.

  40. Spitblood says:

    I’m now looking at DEs. NTs and OLBs. Don’t like DT Jonathan Hankins, Ohio State. Gets washed out too much, and looks way out of shape.

    • NJ49er says:

      Yep, I took him off the list too. Like the size of Jenkins UGA but he’s in the same thought process. Looks sloppy but he’s hard to move.
      All about passion for the NT position with the Big Boys.
      If they don’t love football and just look for a payday, they’ll eat themselves out of the job and you waste a Pick.

      Kawann Short, Sylvester and Jesse Williams are my early possibilities right now.
      Brandon Williams not bad either.
      Also like Bennie Logan, he’s a little lighter in the shorts though.
      Moves like Bryant Young IMO. Looks like a battler inside.
      Gonna watch for him at the Combines,

    • NJ49er says:

      Check David Bass at the DE position.
      I’m hoping we target him so we can spend the higher picks on the Secondary.

    • NJ49er says:

      Bass looks athletic enough to make the transition to OLB in our 3-4 scheme I think.
      Much of what I’ve read suggests that he’s a 4-3 End.
      All I know is, he gets after the QB just fine.

  41. Spitblood says:

    Just looked at John Jenkins, Jesse Williams, Sharrif Floyd, Sheldon Richardson and the beast, Star Lotulelei. Star’s amazing. He’s a top five pick. I’d love to have the 49ers package up a lot of picks for him. He’s worth it. If they don’t, so far I like DT Sharrif Floyd. All the other guys (besides Star) aren’t strong enough at the point of attack. Add Sharrif Floyd to guys I like.

    • NJ49er says:

      My top 2 are Richardson and Floyd without question but, we’d have to Trade up to get a sniff at either.
      Richardson is a beast.

      I’m trying to speculate who lands at 31.
      That’s why I’m hedging toward the DB there.
      I think the value is higher.

  42. NJ49er says:

    Another option we might want to consider as a PR replacement for Ginn is Leodis McKelvin.
    He’d change up the dynamic at WR and possibly add some depth and experience as a DB.

  43. unca_chuck says:

    Well, shit NoFear, why stop with rifles? I need a grenade launcher and an Abrahams M1 to protect my propitty. A few SAMs to protect me from the black helicopters.

    At what point to you say something like, hey let’s limit SOME of these high powered weapons and high capacity magazines. But, hey, it’s someone else’s kids, right? Who cares?

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      Actually, Chuck, there is no Constitutional reason for those things to be banned. You have been socialized into believing there is, because you’ve grown up in a world where the government says so, but it did NOT start out that way.

      During colonial times, private ownership of artillery and warships was not only legal, it was not even unusual. So much so that the constitution mentions “Letters of Marque” for privateers. Most of the artillery the American forces had early in the Revolutionary War were privately owned.

      The founding fathers, who were after all revolutionaries, strongly believed that this was correct and should not be altered. It was only later, as the government became more concerned with control, that this was very gradually and quietly changed.

      In any event, banning guns of whatever kind is NOT going to stop school massacres. Some idiot will use fertilizer and fuel oil, or poison, or a hammer. Your kids and my kids will never be completely safe. Laws are great at punishing the guilty, not so good at preventing the crime. We have a myriad of laws and LE agencies in this country whose sole purpose is to enforce them, with regards to guns. The last time I checked, it had made exactly Jack Shit of an impact on the drug trade.

      The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves…

    • 12th man says:

      Chuck, the reality is that restricting or limiting legal guns to law abidding people does nothing to solve the issue. Assault weapons ban was tried already. There are 4 million legally owned assault rifles already in the US and I think I’m right in saying there have been 8 total attacks using an assault rifle. It’s a political strawman designed to be used as the thin end of the wedge to place controls on people. The mentally ill are the biggest reason these attrocities occur, the Mother of the kid that is responsible for Sandy hook bears a lot of the blame. She has a mentally ill kid yet keeps weapons available in the house. Common sense would dictate making sure an unhinged boy would have no access to her weapons yet that aspect seems not to have been highlighted. The attack was carried out with legally owned guns.

      The word “responsible” gun ownership needs emphasis. I have no problem with background checks, upping the penalty for buying guns to give to law breakers, basic weapons training particularly the aspect of safe storage.

      Instead of using these hideous attacks as a method of restricting peoples rights they should use it to install education for gun owners in the safe use and storage of their guns.

      NF has a valid point that NY and Chicago and DC should be the safest cities if restricting peoples access to guns worked. It simply cannot and does not work since criminals are not trying to buy guns legally and the mentally ill are able to buy legally and/or have access to the family guns.

      I’m all for having the conversation about it, but not for arbitrary laws aimed at decent citizens that does absolutely nothing towards solving the problem.

      The other thing is that this issue simply can’t be solved. As a factual statement guns are part of the fabric of this society and always have been. The truth of the matter is that the answer to a bad man with a gun IS a good man with a gun, that is exactly what we have when we call the cops, a good man with a gun. There simply can’t be a cop on every corner, nor do I want one, an armed citizenry has a purpose and since the wild west days, a posse of armed citizens is raised to chase the bad guy.

      To put it into todays context, major cities in the US have a 3 to 5 day supply of food and water on hand at any one time without resupply. If a very large quake struck or a series of quakes strike it is a very well known scenario run by local and state governments that utter lawlessness will appear by the 7th day and it will be dog eat dog. I will protect me and mine. This is not some fantastical proposition, it’s a real world scenario.

      All those other rights being impuned, infringed upon and ignored are equally worth defending, to me this is not a left/right issues, it’s a control issue and I didn’t sign up to allow my government to control me, I expect to control my government. By the people for the people isn’t a cute phrase on an historically interesting document. It’s a system of government being systematically dismantled.

      Dislosure: I don’t own an assault rifle, but I don’t agree to give up that right.

      This has been a soapbox moment brought to you by me, a Citizen that wants to keep the rights earned by history.

  44. Spitblood says:

    A second amendment argument? Well fuck me sideways, I’m in. Saying that we need to hang onto our arms to overthrow the government is a joke. Did you see just recently that Obama now can attack American citizens with a drone? I know the guidelines were meant for foreign soil but that’ll be applied to American soil soon….trust me. Are you going to take your AR-15 (or whatever the fuck) and defend yourself against drone attacks? Go get ’em, Tiger. Good luck with that. Our military is the greatest in the world – and the most sophisticated. If you can’t see that arming yourself with an assault weapon isn’t going to help anyone overthrow the US government, you simply aren’t paying attention. In addition, If there’s a revolution and we need to overthrow the government, think the world wouldn’t arm us? In today’s world it’s not like we need to send a pigeon across the Atlantic and hope the Mayflower brings us back some guns from France. If there was an uprising against the American government we’d get our guns not from our basements but from our neighbors and others who hate America. If England wanted to overthrow its government, it would get its guns.

    As far as self defense goes, I only need a shotgun. Home defense doesn’t require a magazine full of bullets. Home defense requires two or three shells with a shotgun, or five or six bullets for your sidearm. No altercation lasts longer than a reload in real life. If you think otherwise you’ve been watching too many movies – or you’re paranoid. I think we should limit gun use in America to the old west – six shots. Hunters and people defending their homes don’t need anymore than that.

    And don’t give me this constitutional crap. The constitution is a live document that can be amended when life changes and new rules need to be applied. We should hope to advance our culture, and our constitution. We don’t need guns to defend ourselves against our government, and our homes aren’t under attack by the Taliban.

    Here are two interesting statistics – If you own a gun in your home you are 22 times more likely to have an accidental death in your home than if you didn’t have a gun in the house. The other telling stat is that police officers are pro gun control, but sheriffs aren’t. Why? Because sheriffs are elected and police officers aren’t. Sheriff’s usually work in uneducated, rural populations. Police officers usually work in metropolitan, more educated populations.

    For my money, I think we should quit muddying the water with talk of constitution. That can be amended. You only need six shots in a gun to hunt or defend your home. If you need more you’re paranoid, and I hope they use the drones on you to confiscate your weed that’s making you so paranoid.

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      Spit – you don’t defend yourself against a drone attack by shooting it out of the sky.

      You shoot it on the runway. Or better yet, shoot the guy flying it from the control station.

      And honestly, no, nobody expects or hopes this comes to pass, and if it does, a lot of the US military will join the rebels anyway. But that does not belittle the contribution that the lowly infantryman makes to a battle. Yes tanks and drones are lethal – but it is the grunt with a rifle who takes and holds ground. A drone is really just a long endurance low-intensity fighter-bomber. We had plenty of those over Vietnam. Ask the Vietnamese the value of determined soldiers armed with rifles. They are still there; we are not.

      And yes: the Constitution can be amended. There is a process for that. Gun control advocates are welcome to try. I’m not holding my breath you’re going to get the 2/3 or so you need though. And remember: once that particular nasty little Pandora’s Box is open, there is no closing it.Why not infringe the rights of Muslims to their religion, too? So we can be “safe”. And let’s not ban free speech, let’s ‘regulate’ it, so that the ‘wrong kind’ of speech does no incite violence. And nobody but a criminal could object to expanded search and seizure. Think of the children.

      But then, in the government’s eyes… we are all children, aren’t we?

      • Spitblood says:

        Grump, you’re great, but you’re wrong. First off, your claim that once you close the box it can’t be reopened. Didn’t the assault weapons ban expire under Clinton? In addition, that’s great that we could get the drones on the ground or kill the people flying them, but that doesn’t address the issue. We could easily get the guns from Mexico if necessary. Think those SOBs wouldn’t jump at the chance to make a buck off a needy gringo? And yeah, they have the connections to arm all of North America. Like I said, England would get ’em if they needed ’em for a revolution. And we already regulate free speech, and it works. Yell bomb on a plane and see if friends and family support you. Get your first amendment lawyer out there and see what kind of magic he can create for you.

        The government is exactly the problem. A huge part of our economy is supported by defense spending. We learned early that if we have a recession, or god forbid a depression, we can spend our way out of it by going to war and ramping up our weapons budget. What happens? That becomes our culture. Talk to people around the world,they all say we’re war mongers. And I agree. Iraq, Afghanistan and Siria…… and huge sanctions against Iran …… all at once? Warranted or not, we’re a war monger county and that’s our culture. The point is, we’re better than that. Let’s emphasize other things….. think of the children.

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        “Pandora’s Box” referred to using the hammer of Constitutional Amendments to restrict things in the Bill of Rights. It is legally possible, but would set the most awful precedent imaginable.

        And yes, the government already curtails those freedoms around the edges, where they get away with it. Personally, I don’t think making those edges – or the middle – more accessible to their predations is a good thing.

        As for warmongers, yes and no. We fight where our economic interests are threatened. For all the talk about Syria, we have no troops there, and most of the rebel money comes from the Saudis. Because 1) there is no oil, and 2) a large portion of the rebels actually are Islamists and hate us. We also don’t do wars in Africa, because they have nothing to export but misery. Actually, the American domination of the world, just as it was under Pax Britannia, is more economic than openly military. The ‘big stick’ is there but most of the control is by bankers. Bankers can steal more and ultimately cause more human carnage than any man with a gun. We’ll have to see when China takes our place in a generation if they are so restrained.

      • 12th man says:

        Spit, we don’t need to get guns from Mexico or anywhere else, we already have 350 million.
        The recession was in large part caused by the conflicts not the other way around. The first time ever we went to not one war but two and instead of raising taxes or other methods of raising revenue to pay for it we enacted the largest tax cuts in history but that’s for another day.

        Defense spending is also beyond reasonable but again it’s another topic for another time.

  45. 12th man says:

    Spit, I didn’t see anybody talking about armed insurrection. Perhaps you can explain how limiting magazine capacity somehow makes anybody any safer or does anything towards stopping these attrocities?

    • Spitblood says:

      12th –

      “Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained LEGALLY. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and semiautomatic handguns.Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to slaughter students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes, along with an AR-15 assault rifle, when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater. In Newtown, Connecticut, Adam Lanza wielded a .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic assault rifle as he massacred 20 school children and six adults.”

      These weapons are being obtained legally. There’s no justification to own a semiautomatic weapon other than for an uprising against our government. We don’t need ’em to hunt with or defend our homes. Make ’em illegal and you’ll limit the number of deaths. You will certainly still have issues, but the people with mental issues won’t be able to kill 20 people at a time. I say make ’em reload….. give the kids a chance to run like hell.

      • 12th man says:

        In 2 of the crimes you list the assault rifles jammed and were not the reason for the amount of deaths. And what do you propose we do with the 4 million assault rifles already in circulation? As a ratio of weapon to crime, assault rifles are the lowest category of threat and the least death accounted for so why are we looking at them to curtail death by guns? This does not make any kind of sense in real terms.

      • Spitblood says:

        Yeah….. I’m sure they jammed. There was also a rumor going around that liberals staged one of the shootings.

      • Spitblood says:

        12th – I’m personally selling the Golden Gate Bridge. It’s a cash cow. Think of the revenue. I’m only asking $200,000. You should buy it.

      • 12th man says:

        Spit you are flippant but have not answered my questions. It is easy to run around hands in the air calling to ban this or restrict that after a terrible event, all of us have the same gut reaction to an awful tragedy. The point is trying to do things that will be of use in helping curtail these events. Assault weapons bans, magazine size is no solution and you are kidding yourself to believe it will. Chuck wants to do “something” as the status quo means more of the same. OK, but make the “something” worthwhile. Joe Biden openly admits banning assault rifles will do nothing about these shooting incidents both size or frequency so ask yourself why they are pushing it?

      • 12th man says:

        Forgot to address it, there is something called ballistics, strangely enough they say they can tell the difference between munitions that kill people and since it is the “authorities” that wish to ban assault rifles and limit magazine capacities it makes me wonder why the say the rifles jammed since that hardly helps their case does it Spit?
        Are you always this obtuse or is today a special occasion?

      • Spitblood says:

        You say no, I say yes. You don’t have fact or stats that support your claim. Our society has no….. none…. zero reason for having a full magazine of bullets for your gun. I really believe, 12th, that you just don’t want someone tell you no.

        It’s an elitist attitude that happens to men when they’re older. You think that if you find like-minded people you’ll all band together and help protect your families. It’s a feeling of safety older men need.

      • 12th man says:

        Interesting Psych 101 eval there champ, like most things you say it’s shallow and poorly thought through.

        It may be interesting for you to know that in emergency situations there are contingency plans in place, from the local government agencies, for exactly what you just described. A band of guys protecting their families, and yours incidentally and designated local area’s.

        Of course this planning is for extreme emergencies and hardly likely to be put into practice but they are there non the less. See the government doesn’t have the luxury of not planning for every eventuality however far fetched you think it may be.

        And you are spot on, I don’t want to be told no by an ineffectual set of laws designed to curtail my legal choices.

        I’m still waiting for answers to the questions I posed by the way.

      • Spitblood says:

        That’s all it really boils down to, 12th. You simply don’t want to be told what to do. I can respect that. Unfortunately for all of us you’re not the problem. The government doesn’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. Individually we’re all smart. But as a group we’re one of the stupidest groups of animals to ever walk the face of the earth, and you know I’m right. A person is smart, people are dumb. This people don’t even remember your initial question you asked.

      • 12th man says:

        Accidentally Spit you have hit on the crux of the issue. It’s a numbers thing. I am not the problem, nor is Grumpy, nor is No Fear or maybe even you although I qualify that statement. The rationale is some nut job gets his/her hands on some weaponry and shoots the most innocent of all in our society and the answer becomes the millions upon millions that are not the problem inherit it. I see a sign that says “x millions of gun owners didn’t kill anybody today”. All it takes is a crazy to go ballistic and we have the ban the guns crowd pointing fingers as though it will help in any tangible way. Tragedies happen in all walks of life and most are preventable. Guns are no more lethal than cars and sometimes some crazy drives into a crowd. Ban cars? cars over a certain weight? cars over a certain size?

      • Spitblood says:

        Yeah, but 12th, you’re apart of the population. The “It’s not me,” part of the game isn’t responsible on your behalf. You’re pointing fingers. The game isn’t to point fingers at the guns or the people, but it’s to do what you can to help fix or ease the problem. I’ve purchased locks for all my guns, and I’m thinking of donating my 9mm to the local police department. The DFG tells me I can only load three shots into my shotgun when killing birds, so I have plugs in my guns. That’s enough to blow some crackhead’s face off if the tries to rob me. In addition, I’ll support any gun legislation that the politicians can dream of because nothing is set in stone. We must change without pointing fingers. We must make sacrifices to fix the problem. I’m not saying get rid of the guns. I’m saying limit the effectiveness of the guns. Why not try? Is it because you stubbornly don’t want the government to tell you what to do? I believe that’s irresponsible on your behalf. We have to try and do something. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome.

      • NoFear49er says:

        If you really want to fix the problem, address the problem. By your logic you fix drunk driving deaths by taking away cars and limiting their speed to 5 mph.

        Guns locked away and trigger-locked are about as much protection as a rock.

      • 12th man says:

        It has been tried Spit, banning assault rifles did exactly nothing. It’s kind of semantics since they have already backed off the idea of an assault weapons ban and are now going for other kinds of control, such as universal background checks, which I personally have no problem with.

        The idea that we as a society are cowed by the most extreme events in society, that policy is set by the worst examples and most egregious behavior is in itself extreme. That you and millions of others are willing to give up rights based on this mindset is troubling. That you don’t care about it yourself is fine but why should I allow you to impose that on me? If banning something or restricting something had a hope in hell of achieving what you say needs achieving more power to it but you still have not addressed the underlying matter of 350,000,000 weapons that exist today before another one is bought. I know why you haven’t addressed it, because there is no answer to it. The chance of the government taking away existing guns is less than zero. Ergo even if the feds could ban all gun sales effective 5 mins ago it will have no effect on the availability of guns, only the cost of them and the unregistered nature of them.

        You have offered no solutions but continue the rhetoric without answering the points raised. You are attacking the problem from the least effective standpoint in a way that has already been tried. It doesn’t work.

      • Spitblood says:

        NoFear – “If you want to fix the problem, address the problem.” I agree. Your attitude is part of the problem. If all you’ve got is “Guns don’t kill people…..” you’re exactly part of the problem. Everyone has to do their part, but you guys don’t do anything. That’s the problem.

        In addition you write, “Guns locked away are as much help as a rock.” Yeah…..typical poor logic once again. First off, there are times when you go into more dangerous situations – more so than others. Take the lock off. Are you saying that gun that was once locked is now as “effective as a rock?” That’s what you’re claiming. In addition, what about those of us with warning systems in their homes? Something trips an alarm and you have time to unlock your gun. Are you really that blind that you can’t see the good in a locked gun? I was watching that show, “Moonshiners,” and some star hillbilly said, “Always treat your gun like it’s loaded. Then keep your gun loaded because an unloaded gun is no good.” Oh yeah, and he was driving around with a loaded gun while wasted, making moonshine. That’s your logic, NoFear. I respect you, but think about the children…..

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        What if the child is the one who has to use the gun to defend himself or herself? When someone kicks in their front door without warning?

        A Trigger lock is only going to ensure they get hurt then. Luckily not everyone has them.

        When I was a kid, our guns were never locked. My dad had a simple rule: use it if someone comes through the apartment door. Did I abuse it, even at 10 or 11? Hell no. The gun might not have hurt me; my ex-Marine dad would have killed me.

        No, I never had to use it or even touch it. But he did, in 1983, when our front door got kicked open. Fellow was none too happy to see an ex-Marine holding a .357 on him, saying nothing, glaring. He ran, my dad felt no need to shoot, and no one in that crappy neighborhood ever bothered us again.

  46. unca_chuck says:

    12th, say you are up against a guy like the one that shot up the school. If he has to stop to reload after 15 shots rather than 100, there’s a CHANCE to stop him and limit the carnage. That’s the fucking point. If someone is attacking you with a semi-auto rifle with a 100 round mag, he doens’t have to stop shooting to reload til wreaking maximum damage. Many of the kids shot in Newtown were hit over 10 times.

    My point is was and will be, doing nothing will solve nothing. Are massacres like this just the price of living in a ‘free’ society? I guess so. Yippee. I guess we should all shoot first and ask questions later. God forbid we get sensible about this. Y’all are crazy.

    How many of you have kids? How many of you have asked the parents of your kids’ friends if they have weapons in their house? If so, are they locked up? I’ve had this conversation a bunch of times. Mainly because when my kids are sleeping over at someone’s house, I’d like to think they are responsible gun owners. Usually they are, but one guy had a pistol in his bedroom. No trigger lock. I wouldn’t let my daughter spend the night. Harsh? Paranoid? Damn fucking straight.

    Banning high magazine assault weapons is a start. I don’t give a fuck if only criminals get them, because at some point, they will be harder to get for EVERYONE. Like you ALL say, if the weapons aren’t there, they will move on to something else. That’s the point. The assault weapons ban did SOME good in limiting access to them.

    • 12th man says:

      Chuck, with respect, this is a knee jerk reaction to a terrible series of events that does absolutely nothing to help the issue. If you are really serious about trying to limit these events then the elephant in the room is safe storage pure and simple. Spit points to a stat that says 22 times more likely to have a shooting event in a household with a gun, that stat becomes near zero with a gun safe as unauthorized access to the weapons is removed. The Mom of the Sandy Hook nut job has guns available in her home, clearly not locked away in a gun safe.

      Second on the list is the deplorable standards we have for care of the mentally ill.

      Third would be background checks, preventing ill people from obtaining weapons.

      Not only has the horse bolted from the stables, he was never in it in the first place. According to the FBI there are over 200 million privately owned guns in the US, add in law enforcement and other agencies and there is 1 gun per person in the US. There are 4 million assault rifles and less than 10 crimes on record. Does this idea that banning assault rifles does anything towards making anybody safer? It has been tried already with zero positive effect. Guns will be no harder to obtain, ditto large magazine capacities, all that will happen is they will no longer be registered, is that an improvement?

      I am not an NRA member, or a gun nut hunkered down in my basement, I don’t own an assault rifle and I’m not trying to overthrow our gov with an AR15, the hysterical argument Spit puts forward as a reason not have one. I’m a regular Joe just like you. This is an emotional issue which our government is using to curtail peoples rights with no significant benefit other than for them. Each right they take away is one less we have and at the current pace we shall soon have none left.

  47. unca_chuck says:

    Guns are the fabric of America. Wonderful. Kiling each other with them is American as well. That means what, 10 mass shooting per year is acceptable?

    Look at Canada. How are they different? They have per capita MORE guns than the US, yet per capita shootings are WAAAAAAAY below the US.

    • 12th man says:

      The other thing they have is a medical system from birth till death that’s free and is able to identify nut jobs early enough to treat and if necessary to remove them from the general populace. The US is the only western civilized country not to have a broad national health care system. Do you think insurance companies want to take on the mentally ill? where is the profit center for them? Those poor unfortunates are on the liability side of the ledger and therefore undesireable to the profit driven insurance companies. That leaves the state to care for them, have you seen state budgets lately?

      We need real answers to these issues not inflammatory, emotionally driven useless ones.

  48. unca_chuck says:

    Universal background checks shouln’t even be an issue at this point. It’s ludicrous to think how easy it is for weapons to be purchased by anyone at a gun show.

    • 12th man says:

      I recognize the argument against background checks, violating privacy etc, etc but in reality we are already tagged from birth and every major step until death. This state uses our fingerprints for a drivers license. If you travel abroad your fingerprints are used to I.D. you. We are in databases and cross referenced every which way.

      Speaking for myself I have no problem with background checks and think it should be tied to a waiting period. It is one of the key methods of reducing ownership to those that shouldn’t own at least legally. It doesn’t do much about the mentally ill or illegal ownership I.E. black market guns, but it would have some effect on the casual criminal and the irate person looking to pick up a gun in the heat of anger.

  49. unca_chuck says:

    12th, you act like we’re poised at the edge of a zombie attack. So, say there’s a big earthquake in SF. After 7 days, we’re hoarding supplies and shooting each other? Gimme a break. Does the entire country fall apart? Really? This is your scenario for the collecting of assault weapons?

    • 12th man says:

      I think you are making light of real scenarios. Crime was rampant during Katrina, ditto the LA riots that spread to Las Vegas although that didn’t make the news. The event in NJ was better handled by the authorities but they were just a few days from the tipping point. You can choose to hope for the milk of human kindness preventing crime being inflicted on you if you want but I will look after myself. Suffice to say I am very familiar with emergency planning and believe me the local, state and department of homeland security view these scenarios as I have described not as you would wish them to be.

      An assault weapon is one means of defense, not one I currently choose but the government has no right to remove that choice and especially when they know darned well that removing that choice has nothing to do with stopping these hideous attacks.

      It’s a strawman pure and simple.

  50. unca_chuck says:

    There are a number of issues around this, yes. I get that. But to declare guns off limits is, again, ludicrous. How many more attacks do we need to live through before they ARE declared part of the problem?

  51. unca_chuck says:

    Bullshit on the straw man argument. The problem is any time anyone has anything to say about assault weapons, the cry of 2nd AMENDMENT!! is raised. It’s not a 2nd amendment right to have weapons that can kill scores of people without reloading. This is the point. That and universal background checks. And the ‘tyrannical government’ part of the deal is as antiquated as the muskets this amendment was written for.

    Slowing down the abillity to kill IS something that can help somewhat. At least it’s a place to start. All the hooraw around mental health is an entirely different problem. One that was borne out of the for-profit health care/insurance debacle that came to be under Ronald Reagan.

    • 12th man says:

      Chuck with 350 million weapons in the US you are not slowing down anything. We have every kind of hand weapon known to man already in circulation. What you suggest is a feel good “solution” something that says “at least we are doing something”, a consience salve with no merit to it.

      I personally don’t say guns are off limits, but to make any kind of sane argument that banning x or y with all that weaponry out there makes no sense, especially for the category of weapon that has historically done the least damage but is scary sounding and looks aggressive.

      I can live with regulation of sales on the secondary market and would advocate for training to go with a firearms license as well as safe storage facility.

      If a ban was shown to be effective then bring out the evidence gathered under the Clinton years. If banning weapons in general works then explain DC, NY, Chicago etc.

      Banning does not work and will only create a new market for unregistered weapons which to me is a worse scenario. The drug war is an example as was prohibition, it just doesn’t work.

  52. NoFear49er says:

    I love the terms the gun grabbers prefer to use to tilt the conversation. Is everything with a magazine now an “assault rifle”? Put a hand grip on an ordinary rifle and it becomes a banned “assault weapon” now. Really.

    “Semi-automatic” describes the limitation of each shot requiring a separate trigger pull, not some guy with a mac-10 and bottomless magazine hosing down bystanders as the antis would have one envision. That’s too much Hollywood and video games.

    It takes a shooter familiar with the weapon about two seconds to change a magazine. How many less casualties? None.

    If you really care about making the kids safer ban swimming pools and hot tubs and those dozens of other things that are killing our kids in far greater numbers.

    They aren’t proposing that though. Why? Because it’s only about government control and disarming the population, nothing else.

    I don’t a have problem with you if you don’t want to own a gun. I won’t insist you have to own one. But I don’t think you’ll want to post a sign in your front yard advertising that you don’t have guns. Because it’s to your benefit that potential home invaders think you might. They’ll be armed, by the way.

    To my original point, if the wacko going off on school kids is the basis for a new wave of disarming citizens why is a LEO going off on innocent victims not the same argument for disarming the police?

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      “All of the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.”

    • Spitblood says:

      I own guns myself. I’ve got two bad ass shotguns (not the high dollar Benellis, but the old school even more bad ass Remington 480 pumps for duck hunting). I’ve also got a Beretta 9 mm for when I’m out fly fishing on the coast in the middle of weed farms where things can get funky fast. But in all the trips I’ve ever done, I’ve never fired the Beretta. And frankly, I’d feel safer without it. I know you girls will say, “Better to have it and not need it then…..” But I don’t know if I feel that way. If the government came in and said, “hand over your guns,” I’d be the first to give ’em up…….. for the children.

    • NoFear49er says:

      See: The Battle of Athens, TN

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      Disarming the police is an excellent idea. If you really want to prevent needless deaths, as opposed to simply having more government control. There is no reason why police need weapons more powerful than what anyone else is allowed. Unless a police state is your objective.

  53. 12th man says:

    Is gun ownership the new Alex Smith?

  54. 12th man says:

    A very interesting blog day today, it shows how polarizing the issue really is. I think the government will tread carefully on this one because they didn’t get quite the political capital they expected from the Sandy Hook outrage.

  55. 12th man says:

    How do you see this problem being Tackled NoFear?

  56. Nipper says:

    Down with gun ownership. Stick with knives and bows and arrows.

  57. unca_chuck says:

    NoFear, I think there’s a point where you can delineate overkill. Try using your brain to come up with a sensible plan of action rather than bandy about semantics. Even stopping for a couple seconds can be the needed window to take someone down. Sure, the public is collateral damage in the fight to allow weapons for all. Spoken like a guy with nothing at stake.

    The point again is, if those are allowed, why not grenade launchers?

  58. unca_chuck says:

    Again, NoFear, this isn’t about self-protection. I’m all for that. but I draw the line at having, say, 10 bushmasters and 10,000 rounds of ammo.

  59. unca_chuck says:

    It’s pretty hypocriticakl to say high poiwered assault weapions are fine for self preservation, and a flame thrower or RPG isn’t.

  60. 12th man says:

    Mike Vick signs a 1 year contract with Philly, base salary 7 mil + incentives. Sets the basis for starting QB pay for Smith and Flynn?

    • 12th man says:

      He also has to win the job over Foles in open competition so if he doesn’t win he gets 7 mil as a backup

  61. NoFear49er says:

    12th man, I’d prefer to see qualified armed-guards at schools where the local community sees the need for it. I’d like to see school staff and students run preparedness drills for active shooter scenarios like fire drills. When was the last time kids were hurt in a school fire? And an end to gun-free zones.

    What I think we will see is Obama pushing his agenda with or without the support of Congress and in further trampling of the Constitution to appease some of his base and advance his agenda, all to no real good just feel-good for the Chuck’s of the world to say we did it for the kids.

    Chuck, spoken like a mind-numbed sheep. Why would you presume I have nothing at stake? Oh yeah, you’re a left-wing nutjob who thinks he’s the only one who cares about anything.

    Did you ever notice that these guys always choose the so-called “gun free zones” to make their statements. Only the guy with the guns is going to have anything to say about how many are killed, or be able to stop the guy doing the killing. Those “zones” are what your ilk believe represent safety.

    Did you ever try to carry 10,000 rounds of ammo or 10 AR-15s? A single weapon, with 100 or 30 rounds will more than do the job if killing innocents is the goal. Your outrage sounds more like panic. Guns have been around a long time. They don’t load, aim and shoot themselves.

    The important thing is, you don’t get to say what’s right for you is what’s right for everyone. Lucky for all of us.

    • 12th man says:

      My middle school kids just ran a lockdown drill at their school last week. They were told it was because of the Sandy Hook incident. The high schools here have dedicated school police already. A school cop, Jeff Stenroos, shot himself with his back up weapon in the chest (he had a vest on) then said he was attacked by an assailant. They locked down the area for hours before allowing the kids out. He is in prison now.

  62. Spitblood says:

    Well girls, it’s been a fun debate. All I can say is do your part. Don’t point fingers at everyone else. Grump’s right….. we should think of the children. We all have our own opinions.
    To show there’s no hard feelin’s after a spirited debate…..

  63. unca_chuck says:

    No local communities see the need until it happens. Newtown had some version of a man trap that was overcome pretty easily. Most schools are pretty spread out and have multiple entrances. Columbine had an armed guard. Didn’t help much, did it? Gun free zones? What the fuck are you talking about? This has to do with assault rifles, not inner cities. Ask any cop in any city, he ain’t concerned with assault rifles. It’s handguns. Not sure what your point there is.

    Obama may be pissing on the constitution, but it ain’t the 2nd amendment he’s pissing on. It’s illegal search and seizure, wiretapping, eavesdropping, and the like, yet no one gives a flying fuck about it. Yeah, that’s the left’s problem. They cried like babies when Bush instituted the Patriot Act. It lingers on and gets more onerous, but no one cares. It’s laughable. You call me a sheep, but you offer niothing but semantics in your dealings with gun reform? That’s all you got? Good job.

    I presume you have nothing at stake because you accept civilian casualties, mainy children in these high-profile scenarios, as a by-product of the gun mentality that pervades this coiuntry. What should we do about the problem, NoFear? Is there a problem in your eyes? Or shouild we all just accept the fact that x number of innocent children get gunned down by whack jobs so Billy fucking Survivalist can have his 30 M-16s and his 50 shell clips. Perfect. Head in the sand cure.

  64. unca_chuck says:

    Again, NoFear, what is there to do? Accept 50 kids per year killed in cold blood as the cost of freedom? 40? 20? What’s the acceptable number?

    When does enough become enough before something is done?

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      That bargain is only valid if you believe the perpetrators of these acts will have no answer, and that trading away that freedom will really net you 10 or 20 or 50 lives.

      There is no proof of that.

      Explosives or chemicals could easily take MORE lives rather than fewer. So what next? Do we ban fertilizer and pool chemical sales? Do we ban free speech about these topics?

      In a complete police state, these crimes will be more difficult. Not impossible, but certainly more difficult. Does that make a police state desirable? Not to me – I think we’ve gone too far down that road already.

      I do not want my children to survive the crazies of the world, only to be slaves to its wolves.

    • 12th man says:

      There is no acceptable number Chuck, 1 is too many. Unfortunately the “solutions” of restricting magazines and banning assault rifles will not materially affect the possibility of a further tragedy. I have 6 kids so I am a stakeholder by your definition, but to me the solutions don’t lie in false hope feel good laws. This is not news to the gun control lobby, they are well aware that these proposals do nothing to enhance safety in schools or cinemas but its low hanging fruit and serves a purpose albeit not the advertised one.

      In my particular household I am uncomfortable with the idea of loaded weapons accessible to kids. I have a gun safe for some items and I keep a gun in my nightstand with a trigger lock. I figure the risk that I won’t have time to unlock it is less than the risk of a kid, which could be a visiting kid, finding an unlocked gun. Its a risk I am willing to take. I also have an M18 taser which is unlocked. My wife has a gun and on occasion that travels with her in her purse when she feels the need for a little extra insurance.

      We each do what we are comfortable with, but I have no right to impose my comfort level on you and vice versa and our government has no right either, both constitutionally and because the proposed laws do nothing to enhance the safety issue and they know it.

      Here in Cali we have an assault weapons ban. There are some loopholes around it but in general it is in effect. Crime did not dip when it was instituted, there is no noticeable change whatsoever outside of the trend of less gun violence in general. No spike was seen in the trend and no gun control lobbyist can point to California as the shining example of how effective an assault weapons ban would be nationwide or you can bet your ass they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

      I understand the feelings of helplessness people have as well as the desire to be proactive in doing something to stop another Sandy Hook but the fact is removing these rights does jack shit to help.

  65. unca_chuck says:

    Feel good, schmeel good.

    Fuck it. Since most of these weapons are purchased legally (at least in these high profile shootings) what the fuck? Timothy McVeigh can be reborn.

    I still think advocating doing nothing is a win for the nutjobs and the gun lobbies. Yeah, they have your best interest at heart. Can the ‘gun culture’ that pervades this country be changed over time? Is it worth the effort? Can it work? 50 years ago, smoking was as common as breathing. Now? Much different. Prevailing sentiment can be changed. Not quickly and certainly not easily. Kinda like getting off the oil tit.

    Awww, fuck it. Who am I kidding? It’s been fun. Well, except for NoFear. I’d figure he’d bring more to the table than semantics.

    New thread is up.

    • NoFear49er says:

      I’ve made quite a few points on the subject Chuck. Worse than being ignorant you choose to remain ignorant.

      I have kids and I have grandkids. Grandkids that are currently serivng in the military, too. I’ve been caring about kids, more than just mine, too, since you were barely one. So that “nothing at stake” attempt at a slight is as much bullshit as the rest of your idiotic regurgitation of liberal wacko talking points.

      All the gun laws and bans on the books didn’t do shit to save one kid at Sandy Hook school. But you, in your brilliant enlightenment, think that more will do the trick. What’s worse is that to your thinking everyone not on board with your insanity doesn’t care about the kids.

      Who put it in your head that taking away guns from law-abiding citizens will stop the mentally defective from doing bad things? That’s the guy, or group, or party, that you should have your issue with.

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