Kappy’s Kryptonite

A funny thing happened on the way to Colin Kaepernick’s ascendancy to the upper echelon of the young guns of the NFL. he pitched a ball 15 yards toward his own end zone, thus giving the Rams 8 points and new life. This of course came after retreating 24 yards only to throw an intentionally grounded pass from his own end zone for a safety. Kappy scored 8 for ther Rams, and 13 for the Niners. The Rams earned 5 on their own for the win.

Belaboring the conervative play calling may not be anyone’s idea of fun, but it has to play a part in this team trying to reach the promised land. yes, you change your look to what the defense is showing, but the Rams had the line packed most of the game, and the Niners still tried to run into in, to no avail. this game was so much a Noloan/Singletary game. With the exception that those guys may have WON this one.

Harbaugh called an option pitch from his own 17 yard line with 3:31 remaining in a game where the StL offense had scored zero points. The snap was low, and Kappy hurried the pitch, and it skipped to the 2 yard line, where Ted (Allen Rossum) Ginn pretended to try and get the ball. At best he should have knocked it OB, kicked it OB, fallen on it,   or something other than the lame-ass attempt to get it that he did. Janorious Jenkins recovered the fumble on the 2 yard line. Inexplicably, and with Ginn sitting on Jenkins’ helmet after the recovery, Jenkins wasn’t ruled down by contact  and was allowed to roll into the end zone for a score. Hometown call but whatever. StL converted the 2 pt conversion for the tie. The rest we all saw. Bradford scampers for a couple 1st downs with the obligatory stupid fuckup by Dashon Goldson on the hit to Bradford. For as good as he is, he continues to make some boenheaded plays at the worst possible times.

Anyhow, back to the play calling. As much as Kappy wants to pin this game on himself, and there is a large amount of resposibility that falls on his shoulders, you have to really question what Harbaugh/Roman are thinking. All game the Niners ARE playing it fairly conservative. Gore had one big run surrounded by a bunch of one yard runs. The passing game consisted of the kind of short shit that everyone blamed on Alex Smith’s limitations, not the desire of a head coach to play it safe. Kappy was supposed to assume the starting role because he brings more downfield striking ability to the table. Well, it was rarely shown all game despite the Rams packing the line and daring the Niners to go deep. They didn’t until the 3rd quarter. Again, VD was eerily silent. Walker dropped a sure TD, but there were very few downfield shots taken. Moss? He gets his 1 or 2 12 yard outs. He’s gotten I think ONE deep pass all year. It’s insane.

All that being said, the approach WAS working. The Niners had an 8 point lead with 4 minutes remaining. The D was stopping everything the Rams had. Then the fateful pitch play. If ever there WAS a time to play it conservative, it was then. Instead, Harbaugh wanted to go fucking college gimmick look-at-me-I’m-so-cool play, and boom, a gift 8 points for the Rams. Kappy did make another mistake, but it came after his 50 yard run to set up the late lead. He should not have gone OB on his 10 yard run to set up Akers’ 33 yard FG. A quibble? Maybe, but it would have forced StL to use their last time out before their last drive.

After trading punts in OT, Hekker boomed one 14 yards to give the Niners the ball at the 50. Now HERE’S where you DON’T go conservative. After converting a 3rd down to StL’s 37, the Niners ran right 2 tims for 4 yards. They tried to get the ball to the left hash mark, but the pass to Crabs was incomplete. Still and all, you don’t really want to leave your struggling kicker with a 51 yarder. Even indoors. Take at least one shot downfield. a nice mid-range pass or something. I know they were worried about a sack, but being conservative pretty much sealed their fate. I think about 95% of the Niner fans out there knew what was coming.

About unca_chuck

Lifelong SF 49ers, SF Giants, and Golden State Warriors fan
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237 Responses to Kappy’s Kryptonite

  1. unca_chuck says:

    Shit. I try to not make these so damn long . . .

    But I have to get my point across.

    • Irish Kevin says:

      I stopped reading after the first sentence. and started up again on the last. understood everything perfectly

  2. unca_chuck says:

    Harbaugh has been doing a great job as the Niners coach, but there are times where he baffles the shit out of me. The NYGiants game, Smith is clicking along, and he brings in Cappy to stall a few drives. He instigates the QB change among a whole lot of needless bullshit nonsense with the press and the whole guessing game. Then there’s the play calling yesterday. The game felt like a Nolan game where you didn’t know when it would happen, but the wheels were going to fall off at some point. the Rams didn’t even really hang around to keep it close, the Niners did that for them. AND ended up scoring for them.

  3. barleyfreak says:

    The Rams played to stop the run and take away the deep ball. Wide open were dinks and dunks that we mostly didn’t have the patience to take advantage of. Shit, we could have just run slants in front of Jenkins all the way down to the EZ. Yes, the play calling is maddening, and certainly not just in this game. There is a time to be conservative, and a time to be aggressive. For the life of me, I see HarbRoman getting it wrong in crucial situations about 50% of the time. What are they doing, flipping a coin?

    Being aggressive rather than conservative to set up the FG (even those pesky long ones) can lead to some mistakes. But the FG’s don’t always work, now do they? And hey Jimbo, sometimes those aggressive shots actually DO turn into foot-on-the throat TD’s.

    Plenty of blame to go around on the offensive side (the D gets a gold star). And BTW — if I hear Aikman or one more talking idiot tell us that our OL is the best in the league without acknowledging that there’s this thing called “pass-blocking” that we often SUCK at, my head might explode.

  4. unca_chuck says:

    What I can’t figure is there seems to be no middle ground with the line. The Bears? Flawless. NO? Same thing. Minn? Awful. Giants? Awful.

    Yeah, the slants were working in front of their coverage for the most part. There are times when harbaugh gets too cute for his own good.

  5. Alleykat says:

    The pitch play is fine if your down near their goaline not ours ferchrissakes.Stupid call by JH down there.And pitching it to Ginn who stinks and runs out of bounds more then any other 49 er makes that play impossible to work.

  6. Nice posts, agree 100%. Too cute sometimes and too conservative too often. I’m seeing inexperienced HC and OC who often do not know what will or won’t work. Adjustments to what the D is doing? Forget it. Anybody offers Roman an HC position is kidding themselves. Harbaugh is a good coach with about half the football IQ of Bill Walsh. The word arrogance is coming up.

  7. unca_chuck says:

    From the previous thread. Some good stuff:

    unca_chuck says:
    December 3, 2012 at 9:17 am (Edit)
    Fuck Akers. He’s cost the Niners 2 games. Granted, I didn’t like the play calling when we got the ball on the 50, but still and all, he has to make that kick. Akers was run out of Philly for this very same reason. Missing big kicks.

    And the pitch play was retarded. Time and place, coach. 3:30 left, and your defense is stuffing the swhit out of St. Louis. Say what you will about Harbaugh’s conservative play calling, that pitch call was a fucking gimmick. That is when you SHOULD go conservative, based on the situation. Cappy has to learn to eat the ball on that play. Like the pick on the bad snap last week, he tried to do too much with a fucked up play. Fall down (or don’t throw the ball to your own end zone) and move on.

    The time NOT to be conservative is when you have the ball on the 50 yard line and you need to help your struggling kicker.

    Fricking Cappy scored 8 points for StL and 13 for the Niners. All St Louis earned was the 2 pt conversion anf the FG in OT. Cappy wins, 21-5.


    Grumpy Guy says:

    December 3, 2012 at 9:52 am (Edit)

    Agreed. We should have run the pitch play in the first half, when we were up around mid-field. That way if it goes wrong it’s not right on your goal line.

    And as you said, this is two mistakes now that stemmed from Kappy trying to do too much with a lost play after a bad snap. Last week, it was the INT, this week the pitch to nowhere. The coaching staff needs to address that, and make sure that Kappy understands, if the play is already shot because the snap was so bad you’ve lost situational awareness or the timing is screwed beyond any recovery, secure the ball, get back to the LOS if you can, and get ready for the next play. Trying to salvage a big play in that situation is far more likely to produce a negative big play than a positive one. The only exception is do or die, i.e. 4th down at the end of a game, when there IS no next play. Don’t try for heroics that end up biting you in the ass.


    twinfan1 says:

    December 3, 2012 at 9:55 am (Edit)

    My breakdown on Colin yesterday:.
    The good is obvious- he can zip it, and he’s a dymanic runner.and he exhibited both on Sunday.
    However, with all the talk of of him saving sacks- he looks to run or escape, rarely looking to throw.
    As I pointed out yesterday, with his numbers against the blitz-and also the word in football- Smith is one of the best when blitzed-he’ll take sacks (12)- but the other teams pay for those- almost 600 yards, 7 TD, 1 INT when blitzed.
    And then there are the mistakes- he gave them 10 points for sure, and probably the game winning FG by running out of bounds on our last possession.it’s nice of Jimbo to take the rap for the pitch to Ginn- and it was a poor call-but an expereienced, savvy QB doesn’t make the pitch. And an experienced QB doesn’t run 20 yards backwards into the end zone to avoid the pass rush, the play that resulted in the disputed safety. Those are mistakes he won’t make as he gains experience but there’s a division to be won and playoffs ahead.
    I totally disagree that Jimbo *can’t* go back to Smith, of course he can, and he will if Coilin continues with the kind of killer mistakes he made yesterday.Not yet, though.Miami becomes a huge game and a game that’s absolutely winnable. They need to win and Colin needs to play well.
    Both. IMO.
    With all that said- the coaches need to help him more. Several 49er players are said to claim that the Rams knew what they were going to run. Also, I do agree with others that why run the same kind of game plan they would for Alex? Smith is expert at that, Kap isn’t. The headline of Barrows’ blog says it:”Oh irony — Kap needs to be a better game manager”..
    Anyway, they have a chance in the playoffs with Alex playing his game or Kap playing *his*- they have zero chance expectinng Colin to play Smith’s game.Again, IMO.


    twinfan1 says:

    December 3, 2012 at 11:42 am (Edit)

    Word about Harbaugh’s remarks in today’s presser have leaked out, and they’re certainly not complimentary towards Smith. I obtained a transcript of part of his diatribe:
    ” His seventy percent completion percentage isn’t a reflection of his accuracy, but rather what a gutless pansy he is with the football. He manages the game as if it were a dying butterfly, keeps referring to 9 yard passes as ‘the deep ball,’ cries everytime the opposing team kicks a field goal, and looks like what would happen if Justin Timberlake had sex with a woodchuck.”
    That’s the good stuff.


    unca_chuck says:

    December 3, 2012 at 12:28 pm (Edit)



  8. unca_chuck says:

    A couple things . . .

    No WAY should you ever run a pitch that deep in your territory. Esp one where Ginn was 12 yards behind the LOS. Ludicrous. That’s Harbaugh’s college-razzle-dazzle bullshit coming back. Much like his revolving-QBs-in-the-middle-of-a-drive shit. College crap doesn’t work 95% of the time.

    Cappy does need to understand when to cut his losses on a play. He threw the pick on a bad snap last week, and did this on the bad snap. BUT, that play should not have been called. It’s squarely on the coaches. The safety? Well, that was Cappy being Cappy. He’ll learn that the NFL LBs are faster than college ones. He HAS to get rid of that ball earlier. He retreated 25 yards and threw that OB. 2 points isn’t a monstrous mistake. The fumble/TD was.

  9. barleyfreak says:

    From MM’s blog:

    “I completely understand that first-round draft pick A.J. Jenkins is not better than Michael Crabtree. I completely understand how he might not be better than Mario Manningham or Randy Moss. What I do not understand is how Jenkins can’t get on the field ahead of Ted Ginn when the 49ers go with three wideouts. Obviously, the 49ers believe Ginn is a better receiver than Jenkins. And that’s a problem. Jenkins worked in the offseason to increase his strength. Apparently, he is still not ready. It’s inexcusable that they have a first-round draft pick who is healthy but he is not even a factor.”

    I gotta say that I’m pretty done with Ginn as a WR. If the above is true, that we really don’t have ANYONE better them him in on the roster, then Baalke gets a demerit and needs to find some better WR’s. Seriously.

  10. unca_chuck says:

    And did you catch Rex Ran pulling his own ‘wait-and-see’ deal with his QB in the next game?

    Gosh! Will it be Sanchez? Tebow? McElroy? Who cares, Rex?

  11. twinfan1 says:

    Look, this is similar to a fielder making an error and the pitcher immediately giving up a HR. Kap doesn’t get a pass because the play call was bad. He didn’t have to make the pitch. That’s not being unfair to him- as I’ve said before and is patently true- when he took over for a QB playing on a high level for a team playing at a high level he doesn’t get the slack that he would taking over for a struggling QB on a losing team.
    I’ve already covered that the coaching staff needs to create game plans to take advantage of his assets, not Smith’s.

    • phil fan says:

      Harbaugh has put both QBs in a bad situation- Smith has been disrespected big time and Kap HAS to win. If Alex goes back in it will be because CK has lost few in a row. Lose to Miami and we have problems with team morale, with QB morale and the same shitty play calling. Coaching is on the verge of wrecking the season. Lose next week with the Dolphins the sky will be falling we will hear

  12. Alleykat says:

    Talking.about stupid decision,after.Kappy’s 50 yrd scamper in OT to the 15.Why the fuck did they not bring Akers in there for a 32 yarder?
    Instead they fuck up get a penalty,and it turns out to be from 51.Totally fucked up football management.


      His 50 yard run happened before the 2:00 minute warning in the 4th quarter.
      David Akers made a 33 yard field goal. You’re just slightly off there.

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        Yeah, two differently fucked series of play calls. In the 4th, we play called aggressively, but made no allowance for clock management. A drop, a penalty on Delanie Fuckhead Walker, and Kappy goes OB, and we left way too much time for the Rams to answer and tie it. Akers made that kick, BUT.

        In OT, with the clock not a concern in any way, we went brain-dead conservative, not even trying to close in for a shorter FG. With everyone on this blog screaming obscenities, totally knowing what was going to happen. That’s the long one Akers missed.

        Fucking unbelievable…

  13. NoFear49er says:

    Nevermind Moss had the blocking responsibility on Jenkins. Even if the Kaep to Ginn pitch had gone perfectly Ginn would most likely have lost yardage or possibly the ball into the end zone from the hit Jenkins was bringing thanks to Moss’ pitiful excuse for a block.

    I saw the same pitiful excuse for blocks repeated by much of the o-line throughout the game. They brought five and six rushers for series at a time and we just let them destroy our plays time after time. The effort to block much of the time was seriously lacking.

    Luckily we had a stupid play called and a guy lose the game on it to take the heat.

    Anybody notice we failed to stop a two-pointer even after the gift penalty put the Rams on the 7YL for it?

  14. unca_chuck says:

    No, Twin, it’s more similar to Buster calling for a high fastball and Timmy giving up a home run on a high fastball. Some of the culpability falls on Harbaugh for calling such a dangerous play. Like the drive-killing shit he pulled vs the Giants. Even if they execute that play, it looked like an 8 yard loss at best. Hand the ball off to Gore, and its a 2 yard loss. He keeps it, same deal. Yes, Kappy has to know his options and limitations, but putting him IN the situation to make such a dangerous pitch down that deep is ludicrous. Just ask Joe Pisarchik.

    • twinfan1 says:

      My analogy was the correct one. And sorry, he fucked up. If he can’t be trusted to keep his poise and eat that and to keep his poise and take the sack instead of running to the EZ like Bambi, he shouldn’t be out there. I’m giving him this as his mulligan but he’s played worse with each start. He needs to turn that around.

  15. unca_chuck says:

    And what the fuck is Ginn doing back there anyway? Mr. don’t-touch-me should be nowhere near the field in the heat of battle. I know we are down a couple WRs, but where’s Jenkins? He should be doing something by now. If Ginn is still ahead of him on the depth chart, what does that say?

  16. Grumpy Guy says:

    When the ball is deep in your end of the field, and is going to be pitched to Ginn, and Moss is your primary blocker, it might generally be a good idea to call time out and ask the coaching staff WTF are they thinking. Just say no to drugs, Jimmy.

  17. Flavor says:

    I agree with Twin that the botched pitch play was mostly on Kap. Who cares if it’s a bad call? The bad call didn’t include throwing the fucking ball 3 feet over the Ginn’s head. But whatever, maybe he just rushed it and with a few 300 pounders closing in on me in a nano-second it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he might make a bad toss.
    What is INEXCUSABLE to me is Kap’s clueless clock management behavior. A fucking high school kid knows he’s supposed to stay in bounds on that play. He did go to University of Nevada and he’s stupidly tatted out to the nines, I’m wondering if we are not dealing with an Einstein here………..

    • Flavor says:

      He had a 37 wonderlic score–that’s actually very good………

      • rtfirefly says:

        Nate had a 10 which you get from signing your name with an “X”. Donovan had an 11.
        Those guys aren’t stupid by any means. Just protesting about the GD test and the lack of education they received in “college”.

    • Kap sez it was all on him- the bad toss on the bad play call on the bad snap on the bad blocking scheme. All on him he sez. He will follow the arrogant coach to hell if he has to.

  18. philippinefan says:

    Early success has spoiled Jim Harbaugh into believing he can do no wrong, that all he touches will be golden. He’s being exposed now with mediocre results starting to show up as he pushes the envelope. Hubris is being met by reality = there is still much for this crew to learn nevermind the first year starting QB. The arrogance of yanking the winning pitcher, ah QB, for the new guy with the great fastball is coming back to haunt. I blame the 2nd year pro coach

    • rtfirefly says:

      Phil, may I ask? What island are you on? Old girlfriend’s Dad was a CPO at Moffett Field and a Filipino volunteer/refugee. That’s the only reason I ask.

      • Mindanao, the big southernmost island. BTW the supposed “super typhoon” Pablo was weak shit despite the direct hit on us. Rain, wind, meh…hope others here fared as well.

    • 12th man says:

      For all of Kap’s mistakes he had the team in a winning position with the Walker TD drop and an Akers missed FG, that’s 2 game winning chances. Yes the young kid screwed up but Kap did enough to win.
      He also would have outscored Brees last week if Akers had not missed 2 FG. People point to the D scoring 14 points but forget Kap did enough on O to win the game outright if the kicker did his job.

      • twinfan1 says:

        What the offense scored against a horrible NO defense and a mediocre Ram defense was not good, .And this business from Harbaugh that “he gave us a chance to win:” is a hoot.I give him a pass on one game that he LOST, but his progression is not good- he’s been worse with each week. And for the first time he lost his composure more than once.

      • 12th man says:

        And the 2 times he put the team in game winning position is????

      • twinfan1 says:

        12, Walker dropped a pass, Akers missed a 50+ FG. Neither error was more egregious than those Kap made.But as I posted earlier,the coaches shouldn’t install a game plan that doesn’t take advantage of his assets.

      • 12th man says:

        Walker dropped a sure, game winning perfectly thrown TD pass, making light of it doesn’t change it. Akers missed a 50 yd + game winning field game. Both are more egregious because we would have won the game with either play.

  19. 12th man says:

    As for Miami, Chuck thinks we should win that game easy. Seattle lost to them and offensive power house New England beat them by 6 in the 4th quarter on Sunday 23-17. I don’t think that’s a gimme game.

  20. 12th man says:

    meant 23-16 won by 6.

  21. 12th man says:

    7. Oh I give up, you get the point.

  22. NoFear49er says:

    Harbaugh’s a risk taker. The local press is in awe when he pulls it off and pounce like “crazed jackals” when it goes bust.

    Everyone was screaming for Roman to call some plays against the Rams pressure and this was one. To mitigate on Roman’s behalf is the fact that he put Kaep in his old familiar pistol on a play he’s pulled off a hundred times.

    The Rams were in a 3-3 nickel front I believe and had corners over on Moss and Crabs with a safety in the slot to blitz along with Finnegan who lined up over Crabs.

    Both blitzers closed on Gore when Kaep faked and Kaep just blew the pitch out to Ginn. But for a bad pitch and Moss’ no-block block on the corner it could have gone for a big chunk. To his credit, and as the putative leader of the team, he placed all the blame on himself.

    Smith’s devoted fanclub has a hard time seeing the safety gift, the sixteen play drive from our 1 to their 5 that burned off 8 or 9 minutes. The defense’s failure to get off on the Rams drive that followed or the easy two-pointer or Walker’s drop of a perfect TD pass, etc.

    Like the last time we played the Rams, we lost that game five ways, but Harbaugh crossed the press’ red line by replacing Smith and he’ll damn well pay for along with Kaep whenever possible.

    • 12th man says:

      NF, to lateral inside your own 20 is dumb, it’s a live ball. Roman called it, Harbaugh signed off and relayed it and one bad snap and worse toss and completely missed block later they are back in the game. Kudos to the Rams for getting the 2 point from the 7 yd line.
      After this series of bad plays Kap drives the length of the field. No lack of composure there Twin, I said to my buddy on the stool next to me that now we will see what he is made of and we did indeed see.
      Harbaugh’s accurate, he put the team in position to win twice.

      • twinfan1 says:

        Funny stuff, 12.He gave them 10 points,and probably the game winning FG when he ran out of bounds, saving them a TO. And you migth recall the previous Ram game when he went braindead and threw to Kyle when a reception would have lost the game. He did some good things yesterday but more than anything, he put them in position to lose. And so they did,This was a game that if played at home, with Smith playing as Kap did, Alex would have needed security to get off the field.

      • NoFear49er says:

        12th man, I hated the call. I said so yesterday a few times. Of course they know it’s a risky play, too. And that was the point of the post. I can say that I for one would have probably called it gutsy if it had gained the few yards for the conversion or maybe even a great call if it had put us in FG position or scored.

        It’s hard to knock Harbaugh for conservative game plans and knock him again for taking some chances. It’s the flip side of the same coin.

        fan1, you’re probably right about the fans booing Smith if he’d done the same, but it’s not Smith’s third start. He’s done much worse in his time here. And I didn’t see Kaep throwing any pick sixes.

      • 12th man says:

        Maybe your’e looking at it glass half empty Twin. There was no doubt a young inexperienced QB will make mistakes, it’s how he responds to them. After making errors on that scale he responded with what should have been a game winning drive and did it again in OT. You can take the negative plays if you like, I will take the good and the bad and am very happy to see this kids grit in adversity. If the play calling improves so will Kap’s game. They have gone into ball control offense on steroids placing a cart behind a race horse. I don’t get it.

      • philippinefan says:

        Harbaugh and fellow coaches are on a steep learning curve while the rest of the league dialed in the Niners attack. They got some learning to do how to use the new hot shot flamethrower, how to run an efficient O, how to stop playing cute college games. Agree with Man here:

        “If the play calling improves so will Kap’s game. They have gone into ball control offense on steroids placing a cart behind a race horse. I don’t get it.”

  23. twinfan1 says:

    I knew you’d come back with that. When you replace a guy playing at the level Smith was, you have to at least play at an equal level. Harbaugh put him there, no slack for either guy.For his first two games, Kap was performing well, well enough to justify the switch.Yesterday he did not.

    • 12th man says:

      Kap made serious errors Twin, no question. He also played well enough for the team to win both before and after those errors and that is in spite of some hideous play calling, he did enough and Harbaugh knows it.

    • NoFear49er says:

      And I knew you’d come back with that. Those are your standards. Impossible standards, as you’re well aware, put in place to justify your never-ending criticsim of Harbaugh’s move. Until he throws three pick sixes, it could be argued, he’s the better choice.

      There is, unfortunately, no way to judge what a QB will do in a game situation until he’s in it. How any times have you seen Smith seeing an unblocked rusher closing in give up on the play, pull the ball down and take the sack? I didn’t see that tendency yesterday, for one example that argues for Harbaugh’s move.

  24. 12th man says:

    Just for fun Twin, Alex in 06, his good season under Norv Turner, against NO in the Superdome:

    And that “terrible” defense that Kap beat in NO had been good enough to win 5 out of 6 until it ran into the Niners.

    I don’t need to defend the kid, he is doing that with his play, it’s just fun to compare 2nd year QB Alex and Kap, against the same opposing QB Brees and see what happened.

  25. twinfan1 says:

    Fear and 12, I don’t want another series of battles with you. I don’t think Colin played well yesterday and I don’t think that kind of performance will do in the postseason. If you do, fine.

    • 12th man says:

      My opinion is he made mistakes and made game winning plays, both. I lay the majority of the blame for the loss on the coaches play calling. Harbaugh today says Roman called a good game, sure he did. 2 times in 3 weeks we found a way to not beat the Rams when we had the chance to. That’s not good enough this close to playoffs. Kap had his part to play no doubt. The loss is as one of your fav beat writers Maiocco said belongs to the coaches.

    • NoFear49er says:

      Haven’t heard anyone complaining about 11 penalties for 97 yards and the plays some of them nullified.

      Heretofore that has been something held up as proof of a coaching failure.

      I know, I know, we NEVER had that problem before Kaep was named the starter.

  26. 12th man says:

    Same result in 2010, in fact Alex has never beaten the Saints in the dome. Another fact is both Kap and Alex have the same record against the Saints, Alex won at home in the Stick by 4 points and Kap won in the Superdome by 10 points.

    A frivolous exercise? Yes it is.

  27. rtfirefly says:

    You guys gonna watch 2 All-Pro QBs in the 4th quarter, or what?
    One of them beat the Niners in the NFCCG last year. I’m trying to scout them both.

  28. rtfirefly says:

    Mike Shanahan, OC Kyle Shanahan and a great young QB who isn’t afraid to take chances.
    Kappy wasn’t ready before. He’s lost and now what we see what we have in a QB.

  29. Flavor says:

    twin said: “When you replace a guy playing at the level Smith was, you have to at least play at an equal level.”
    Now this is a statement I can get completely on board with because it doesn’t have to do with wins or losses being attributed to one player…..
    And you’re dead right with this comment. If JH is going to make this huge bruhaha move near the end of the season, replacing a QB who was performing at the elite level AS was, then you damn well better be AT LEAST as good.
    And Twin is right about something else: Kap’s performed worse each successive game he’s started…..
    It’s all fantastic theater to me, I can’t wait to see how this all unfolds…….

    • 12th man says:

      The problem with saying “Kap has to be at least as good as Alex” is we will never know if Alex would have been better or worse in the same situations. Same goes for “would Alex have beaten NO in the Dome”? or “would Alex have beaten the Bears”?

      Impossible questions. All we can judge is how the QB plays in any given game.

      • twinfan1 says:

        That’s absurd. You can say the same about any QB then. We do know the level Alex was playing at.You’ve tried that lame bit before. You’re positing that however bad his replacement might be, well my gosh, Alex mighta been worse.

      • 12th man says:

        No that your version of what I said.

  30. unca_chuck says:

    It’s the Alex and Cappy show. Twin, you seem to have the excuse train rolling at full tilt. Smith gets leeway up the wazoo. Cappy gets none. Granted, he screwed the pooch on the pitch, but again, play calling has something to do with that. Hey, he scored 21 of the 29 points by himself.

  31. 12th man says:

    The only thing I read Harbaugh said he might change is evaluating what is a reasonable distance for Akers to make a kick from, possibly being more aggressive to get closer. If he was being honest in saying Roman called a good game I guess we can look forward to more of the same.

  32. twinfan1 says:

    First: I noted the play calling yesterday and today- I didn’t like it, mostly because it was not suited to Kap’s assets.
    As to the defense Kap faced in NO. In the previous 6 games, 5 wins; the opposing QBs had 14 TDs 5 interceptions. There were 400 yard passing games twice, 300 yards 3 times, the other was 272 for Vick. It’s safe to say,they did not win those games by shutting down the pass.,.
    But look- I am only asserting that Kap did not play well yesterday, or least not well enough to win against a playoff team. I’m not seeing how that could be argued.

  33. unca_chuck says:

    Worse with each game? This game was bad. The Saints game? Twin’s dissing aside, was no backslide. How does Smith do under all that pressure? Who knows? Maybe he plays a game like the Giants game. No way to know, Would Smith have won yesterday? Hard to say. Smith put up 7 in the 1st Ram game, Cappy 17. Hmmmmm.

  34. NoFear49er says:

    If fan1 is going to insist Kaep must “play better” than Smith he needs to quantify it. Otherwise it’s just bullshit.

    Name the metric or set of metrics by which we can make this judgment. ESPN’s QBR? Rushing TDs? % deep throws?

  35. twinfan1 says:

    We’ll use what you claimed to be the benchmark until last year- W/L.
    But we can each cherry pick numbers. But I said it before, then you kept at it- if you think Kap played at a level to beat a playoff team, fine. Go for it. That has zero to do with Smith- Kap is on his own there.

  36. NoFear49er says:

    That can’t be true. Kaep won his first two. By your measure WAY better than Smith but you’ve been bitching since it was first announced. And in that case you’ve got nothing to complain about until Kaep loses seven games.

    • twinfan1 says:

      Fear, I think Smith is better right now.I disagree with the decision. You can spin it anyway you like- but it’s not been shown that I’m wrong. If that comes to pass, I’ll admit I was wrong. What’s astounding is that after all the years of you whining about Smith, you really don’t think he’s proved *you* wrong. Or maybe you forget what you’ve said. Anyway, let it go. The next few games, including the postseason, will tell the story.

  37. 12th man says:

    Twin thanks for sticking with it. Believe it or not I like chatting with you even though we disagree a lot. I have to leave it at that today.

    • twinfan1 says:

      You are more reasonable than some. But I shouldn’t post here, I’m sure there won’t be disagreement on that. There’s enough room for reasonable debate without having to deal monumentally stupid shit about Smith’s production vs. Kap’s in the first Ram game as if they played the same minutes. It might take a couple days but I’m expecting to Chuck to figger out that 3 1/2 quarters to 1 1/2 isn’t equal.

  38. twinfan1 says:

    BTW, Chuckles- it’s very close, but Smith’s 7 points in his time in the Ram game is a whisker better than Kap’s 17 in his time. You can figger it out yourself or for a small fee I’ll do it for.
    I’m kidding.About the fee. GNight.

  39. NoFear49er says:

    fan1, “But I shouldn’t post here, I’m sure there won’t be disagreement on that.”

    I disagree.

    Half the reason I give you shit is because you get so pissed off when someone sees things differently from you or challenges your edicts.

    I don’t see Alex Smith as a good QB. After eight years and an offense dumbed down to suit him he’s progressed and is doing what is asked of him as long as it’s damned little.

    I don’t think he’s proven me wrong, no. I think he’s proven me right. He wouldn’t be so eagerly replaced by a guy who knows quarterbacks by all indications if you were right and I was wrong.

    • unca_chuck says:

      Did you watch the game last Sunday? What offense did they run? The same one basically that Nolan ran in 2005. Power running game. Short passes. They aren’t ‘dumbing it down’ for anyone. THAT’S IT.

      • philippinefan says:

        Exactly and that’s what has me tearing coconut outta the ground. We’re back to that shit? Harbaugh has 1/2 the football IQ of BW, Roman ditto

  40. twinfan1 says:

    I guess you don’t read your comments. He’s out of the league, pal. Sitting at home .Counting the money he stole from the team. You were wrong before he took a snap in 2011.Now do as you say, “man up”…
    I’m not pissed: as I write this, I’m still amused by the Chuckles math, the Fear fabrications, these are the things that keep me coming back. And I always enjoyed your own battles with the Chuckmeister and your allegiance to the Flying V or whatever he calls himself these days. You’re good theater and a fine spokesman for football and America in 1946.

  41. unca_chuck says:

    This is like WW I. Trench warfare. Neither of you is going to change each other’s minds. But tilt away boys. Reminds me of me and V.

    Monumentally stupid? How about amazingly biased? Kappy had the Niners in position to win both of those games. If not for our shitty kicker.

    Cappy led the Niners on a 90 yard drive against the Rams that you conveniently forget about. It should have sealed the game. He did much the same vs the Saints when that game was in the balance.

    Bitch and moan all you want about the decision, and yeah, there are going to be growing pains, but truth is the offense isn’t a hell of a lot different with either one of them in there. I was hoping for more action downfield, but the Rams did a good job taking the deep shots away. I mean, i guess they did. The niners rarely tried, and I didn’t see their deep coverage. I know the corners were playing off the line most of the time.

    The pisser is the coaching. They could have thrown slants ALL DAY. Moss was getting a 12 yard cushion. Run that same fucking play over and over til they stop it. And again, no screens, no delays. nothing to counteract their packing the LOS. harbaugh has the Singletary hard-headedness at times where he thinks he can impose his will on the other team, regardless of what they show defensively.

  42. Flavor says:

    this issue isn’t whether AS would have played better or worse or if Kap is a better QB or any other nonsense. This is totally about the move JH made that he didn’t HAVE to make. He could easily have let the season play out with Alex QBing at a near elite level and then in the off season the Niners could decide to cut ties with Smith and anoint Kap the starter for 2013.
    But JH didn’t do that, he pulled the rip cord NOW. And he’s given himself little margin for error. As Twin said last night, Kap has to play AT LEAST at the level Smith was playing and in my opinion he has to play at a higher level. Otherwise, why make the change?
    And determining that has nothing to do with *well, no one knows what Alex would have done so you can’t compare the two.” That angle isn’t even worth discussing since it’s a total unknown.
    Just look at the QB ratings if you want an accepted way to decide if Kap is playing at or better than how Alex was playing. And I’m fine with Kap continuing to start the rest of the year, at least as long as he’s not imploding.
    But at the end of all of this, if the Niners don’t win the SB and Kap ends the season with a worse QB rating than Smith then this was unquestionably the wrong decision. Notice, I’m not saying he has to win the SB or get there or any of that—the fact is, if they win it, no one will give a shit about the QB ratings of the two QB’s.
    But “at or better than the level Smith was playing” HAS to be an expectation for Kap for the rest of the season……..

  43. Grumpy Guy says:

    Young QBs do not have linear learning curves.

    I expect that most likely, CK will learn from his mistakes and go on to have a very productive career in SF.

    As for this season and this SB, I’m not confident in winning with either QB. We have simply been too inconsistent this year. The O-line, the run game, the pass game, defense and the ST have all had their bad games.

    Any team that gets into the playoffs can get on a roll like the Giants did, and run the table. But right now, based on what I’ve seen the past three months, I doubt that will be us. Hope I’m wrong; but I doubt it.

  44. Flavor says:

    Just read that Kap’s biological mom still hasn’t met him (since she gave him up) but is trying to and he’s refusing. And it’s a little creepy that she follows him on twitter…..


      She only contacted him when he became a starter.
      In her mind was JACKPOT.

      • Flavor says:

        yeah. I just read all her tweets. back in May she was directly trying to contact him and was actually being kind of a stalker with her comments. Anyway, creepy, and if she cared at all about him she wouldn’t put this undue pressure on him at such an important time in his life.

  45. unca_chuck says:

    At least as good as what? There’s no way to determine how Smith would play under the game conditions that Cappy’s playing under. There is was and will be no way to determine this, no matter how hard you extrapolate numbers, compare QBRs W/L records, or whatever.

    This season, Smith showed he can play good enought to beat good teams, good enough to beat bad teams, and also bad enough to lose to good teams. Minnesota is an outlier. Cappy? Well, according to Twin, the beest defense in the league was easy peazy, winning in the Superdome was a setback, and last week was armageddon for Cappy. Pretty much a microcosm of Smith’s season so far, IMO.

    Frankly, the way harbaugh coached it last week, it appeared he wanted to see if he could win with Cappy playing, and using Alex’s game plan.

    Uh, Jim? No.

    • twinfan1 says:

      Try to be truthful, Chuckles. I know it’s a strain, but what I said was that Chicago’s *pass* defense was not as good as Arizona’s- you now, the team that Smith was 18-19 against. (At the time AZ was 5th, Chicago 10th).
      And what I said about Kappy after last week, beyond pointing out his errors, was that the coaching staff has to give him more help against Miami. In fact, this statement almost parrots what I said
      “Frankly, the way harbaugh coached it last week, it appeared he wanted to see if he could win with Cappy playing, and using Alex’s game plan. “

  46. Flavor says:

    Chuck, regarding your first paragraph, that’s what I was saying and I actually typed the words: “And determining that has nothing to do with *well, no one knows what Alex would have done so you can’t compare the two.” That angle isn’t even worth discussing since it’s a total unknown.”

    But the QB rating is a perfectly acceptable way to compare QB performance. It’s a loose way to compare them, but it’s still an accepted way to compare them…..

  47. twinfan1 says:

    Chuckles, I was addressing your math issues. 7 points in 1 1/2 quarters is not worse than 17 in 3 1/2. And the TD Smith threw after the concussion might been been the biggest score of the game. It brought them to life…
    Now listen up: it’s entirely reasonable to look at Smith’s record, his numbers, and look at the NO defense, and make an educated guess as to how Smith would have played.
    Pretzel logic? Smith doesn’t play defense. He was 7-8 with a TD. Any logic says he played better than Kap did in that game.There’s no logic to say he wouldn’t have continued to play well if not for the injury.
    Now here’s where you need to pay attention: I’ve given Kap his fue when he’s played well and criticised his mistakes. That’s not bitching and moaning, pal. I have an opinion that it was the wrong move- and while there’s a valid opposing opinion, I do support my view. So fuck off-you’re suppressing my opinion by constantly attacking it as if it has no validity, Your’re acting like a fucking Blog Nazi.
    It seems that being against the switch is what’s illegal here..

    • unca_chuck says:

      Smith left the game with a 7 point deficit. Cappy tied the game.

      Duh. What part of that gives Smith the nod for doing a better job?

      • twinfan1 says:

        Did Alex give up 14 points, dilwad? Smith’s numbers were better than Colin’s, pinhead. You’re again trying to advance your dipshit notion that there’s nothing in Smith’s record or stats that offer any clue as to how he might perform.. In the first Ram game there was compelling and concrete evidence that he was performing at a higher level than Colin would proceed to perform. As to the NO game, even in winning the previous 5 of 6, the NO pass defense was absolutely horrendo. You say that one can’t guess how Smith would do but that’s exactly what you do- presuming he’ll pull a Cody Pickett…

      • unca_chuck says:

        Wow, what a little baby you are, Twin. Why was Smith behind? 3 drives with the ball and he got 7 points. Smith had one good drive before he got hurt. You don’t know if Smith wins that game if he stays in, so shut the fuck up about it.

        Smith was 2-3 for 17 yards on the first 2 drives. Awesome. They both started slow. Cappy tied the game that he came in losing. What part of that doesn’t compute, skippy?

    • twinfan1 says:

      The Kapper loses the Ram game if Wiliams turns around, he loses the NO game if the defense doesn’t get two pick sixes .But for the grace of Lombo, the football God, he’s 1-3.

  48. twinfan1 says:

    “But tilt away boys. Reminds me of me and V.” That’s fucking hilarious, You and the suddenly beloved NoFear were sometimes non-stop for days on end. Chuckles- you would have challenged Ghandi if he’d engage you in argument.It’s what you live for.

  49. unca_chuck says:

    Go piss up a rope, Twin. Yer the biggest instigator in all of blogdom.

    • twinfan1 says:

      Blogs are are somewhat like letters to the editor. The difference is that morons like the infamous Lanny Middings,Jr. ( a hybrid Chuckles/NoFear) get to demonstrate their ignorance unchallenged in a letter to the editor.So yes, I’m the biggest instigator if taking the ignorant to task is instigating.So I guess I’m somewhat of a Kaped Krusader myself

      • unca_chuck says:

        And you, sir are a major leauge blowhard.

        Lowel Cohn has nothing on you.

      • twinfan1 says:

        Yeah, but in one life’s great inequities, I don’t get paid for it. BTW, isn’t “Grant Cohn” his son? What a great Thanksiving they had. The neighbors had to call the cops after they got into another “I hate Alex more than you do” slugfests.

  50. unca_chuck says:

    I was against the switch, skippy. I was surprised harbaugh didn’t go back to Smith. Mainly because it eliminates any other path. Harbaugh runs a big risk of losing the team if he switches back to Smith for any other reason than injury. QB roulette rarely leads to anything remotey good. In fact, the whole pounding Kappy’s shoulder pads ritual must have felt pretty terrible to Smith. Leaving Smith in gave Harbaugh an out. Now he doesn’t have one.

    The rah rah ‘who’s got it better than us’ shit all looks great when you are winning but when he switches his allegiance to the back up QB for no good reason and pulls the same pregame routine, well, I’m sure there were players on the sideline thinking, ‘WTF? That’s cold.’

    Harbaugh has put himself, warranted or not, into a situation that brooks nothing but a Super Bowl appearance. It’s a huge risk. Say this season craters amid a 1-3 finish. 9-5-1 may reach the playoffs, it may not. If they miss the playoffs, what then? Or one and done with Cappy? Do they jettison Smith anyway? Harbaugh will have pissed off the team for bailing on Smith, wasting this season, and next year could very well be another debacle under fucked up circumstances. In other words, the 3rd year curse that last 2 coaches fell under.

    • dirtnrocksnomo says:

      Yeah, I thought that pre-game routine stuff was pretty cruel and really not necessary. Harbaugh flipped the switch in his head and seems to relish in humiliating Smith now. Pretty lame.

  51. dirtnrocksnomo says:

    Harbaugh’s response to the reporter question yesterday of whether Smith can win back the job says it all. No way Harbaugh is going back to him. Hell, Smith can probably hardly walk after the deep dicking Harbaugh gave him. Regardless of what happens this week Belichick will have 3 full games to build his defensive plan around. It is pretty certain that Kaepernick will struggle in that game. It will be interersting to watch see happens this week and next as the drama that unfolds.

    • twinfan1 says:

      It was truly funny- in one week- a week that saw Kap, Roman, and Jimbo all fuck the pooch in the ass, Alex went from “he’s our starting QB:” to “he’s one of our guys”. At that rate, if Colin has another bad week it’ll be “Alex? Alex? Anybody know an Alex around here?”

  52. unca_chuck says:

    Then again, if Kappy loses to Miami, there will be loud rumblings in the locker room that Smith should get the nod in NE. At that point, the team would be in serious danger of imploding. Seattle will likely go 3-1, or run the table if they beat us. Which would put them at 10-6 or 11-5. Any kind of losing streak on our part, and the Niners are out. Then we are fucked in the worst way.

    • twinfan1 says:

      Of course there would be no way telling if Smith might have lost the first Ram game, the Bear game, the NO game, the second Ram game, and this week against Miami.In fact we should just figger that he would have lost all of them because, well, there’s just no way tellin’ about these things.
      The team was 6-2 in the games Alex started and finished. Gotta say, they coulda been 0-8 with Colin.You just never know, do you?

  53. unca_chuck says:

    He’s started and finished a lot of games, skippy. 20-6-1. Got it. Kappy’s 2-1. Yeah, I have doubts about how Smith would have handled the NO game. But to you that means I’m a hater and it means I think he would have gone 0-23 with 5 picks. So be it fuck-o. Your schoolboy nonsense is really endearing, BTW.

    I guess the true comparison comes when the Niners rehire Mike Nolan to coach the team after Harbaugh gets run out of town on a rail due to his benching of Smith.

  54. NoFear49er says:

    Bleeding heart empathy for poor Alex aside, the QB most likely to help the team more is Kaepernick. So says the guy who gets paid vast piles of shiny coins to evaluate and choose. Need I remind anyone, he’s the guy most fans were wetting their pants in excitement that we hired for that exact job.

    Of interest and germane is QBR: Alex’s 2012 total QBR = 69.8.
    Kaep wk11 = 97.5, wk12 = 72.3, wk13 = 82.4

    Team W/L record 2012 Alex: W,W,L,W,W,L,W,W,T (left game down 7-14)
    Team W/L record 2012 Kaep: W,W,L

    Looks like we shouldn’t be having these disagreements on performance. Or pretending that’s what some are bitching about.

    • unca_chuck says:

      I’ll go one step further, NoFear.

      Cappy’s in the lead. Alex ‘loses’ the 1st Ram game because he left the game down 7 points.

      Cappy ‘wins’ the Ram game because he scored more points and overcame the deficit Smith put them in.

      So, that’s 6-3 (.667) to 3-1 (.750). Cappy has a slightly better winning percentage.

      Hyuk . . .

    • NoFear49er says:

      Well, I left the inferences as an exercise for the reader. YMMV!

      I can almost hear the furious googling and data mining in progress with the intent of undermining anything that could be construed to Kaep’s credit.

    • Grumpy Guy says:

      What that pattern shows, though, is that we have been inconsistent with both QBs this year. And it’s been something different every time you turn around. QB, O-line, Akers, defense, coaching.

      This team just isn’t giving me the impression that they can win three in a row. Not even with Peyton Manning. Not this year.

      • NoFear49er says:

        Grumpy, do you think some players, like Staley, gave less than 100% (albeit unintentionally) because they sympathize with Alex and think he got screwed?

      • twinfan1 says:

        I’m telling you, Fear, Kap isn’t going to gain much favor as the Great Emancipator if he puts one guy back in chains to release another. Forget Staley, Vernon doesn’t start getting his looks, there will a shit storm-no “grumbling”

      • NoFear49er says:

        If the O-line doesn’t block better than it did against the Rams Kaep won’t be looking past the hot read or an escape route very often.

      • Grumpy Guy says:

        No. I don’t think there is any of that, at least yet. They were coming out flat and awful every three weeks with Alex in there, too.

        Some of it might be ‘Victory Disease’ after last year. Some of it is bad luck. Or bad mojo. And some of it defies explanation. Whatever the case, this team cannot seem to maintain its focus for very long. The reboot at QB will not help that, but also did not create it. This may just not be our year, regardless. Hopefully I’m wrong and we catch fire in the next month. But time is getting damned short for that.

    • NoFear49er says:

      (obligatory response)

      Liar! Fabricator! Lowlife from Room B! None of it is true.
      Alex is the best. The best ever!

  55. twinfan1 says:

    Oh, everthing in Kaep’s favor or “credit” has been duly noted, NF-by me.BTW, one of the more amusing openers in Lynch’s blog is “Unca_Chuck said blah blah- I (Lynch) didn’t say that…”
    But good to see Chuckles and Fear back in bed together. Who gets to play the Kenyan?

  56. NoFear49er says:

    Childish fail there fan1. More than two posters disagree with you. Must be an ego thing with you.

    • 12th man says:

      So NF, apparently Bullit has run you off of Skeebs blog so I learned today. He is an annoying maggot but I find that hard to believe.

  57. twinfan1 says:

    There’s never been any doubt that more than a couple disagree with me. But the Fear-Chuckles bonding is curious indeed.

  58. rtfirefly says:

    #1) Texans off
    #2) Patriots off
    #3) Ravens home against #6) Steelers
    #4) Broncos home against #5) Colts
    #1) Falcons off
    #2) 49ers off
    #3) Packers home against #6) Seahawks
    #4) Giants home against #5) Bears (now without Urlacher, the Redskins or Buccaneers will take their place now IMO)

  59. unca_chuck says:

    These weird couplings only happen in your head, twin. For shame.

    ITSET? Ahhh . . . if the season ended today.

    Yeah, I don’t get the deal either. Win 2 lose 1. Repeat as needed.

    Cappy fell right into line with that.

  60. rtfirefly says:

    Snow coming Monday, finally. It’ll either kill me or this influenza everywhere. It’s about time.

  61. unca_chuck says:

    Shit, we got pounded with rain last weekend. Over 6″. Crazy. Snow level luckily came down to under 6000′.

  62. unca_chuck says:

    Twin, you keep emphasizing Kappy vs Smith. It’s more than that. It is was and will be more than that. Kappy blew a couple plays last week, but the OFFENSE was terrible most of the game. The blocking was horrendous. Gore had one good run and 18 for a yard. Having Smith in there wouldn’t have changed that. If anything, Smith would have been sacked more. And Smith doesn’t get the 50 yard run. Does he drive the team 90 yards for a FG? Do we run the dumb-ass pitch? Not likely with Smith, but I can’t say I’m positive about that. You can run in cirlces all you want.

    The point being what? Pass pro is better with Smith? The run game magically improves with Smith in there? The pass rush improves with Smith? Horseshit.

    BTW I rarelypost in the Insider anymore so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    • rtfirefly says:

      Rob was the first guy I read who pointed out Hunter going down was a big blow.
      SingHardBall’s offense depends on the run, and Frank has to be saved for the playoffs.
      Take a hint from RG last night. The first play from scrimmage was 50 yards downfield. Incomplete. Scared the crap out of the Gints, though. You could see in their eyes.
      Kappy is a similar QB, though not nearly at RG’s level. Let him
      Just my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.

      • twinfan1 says:

        When Chuckles is getting all butt- hurt because he doesn’t think poor Kap is getting his due,he neglects to note that he almost parroted what I said about the coaching in the Ram game- that the game plan seemed to be suited for Alex and that they needed to take advantage of what Colin does best. In their zeal to pretend I’ve done nothing but trash Kap, he and Fear both omit the many positives I’ve posted about his play.

  63. twinfan1 says:

    I’m not emphasizing those two- the media, YOU, everybody is. As to your post about how Smith would have done- suddenly you know? It’s bullshit. He takes sacks but I’ve given you the numbers against the blitz- he’s one of the 2 or 3 best. You are making HUGE assumptions after your edict that no assumptions can be made.
    Here’s what we KNOW- as I said- Kap, Roman, Jimbo fucked the poor little doggy. As per YOUR reasoniing, you have no goddam idea what Alex would have done,,,

  64. twinfan1 says:

    Chuck- do not edit my posts. Delete them, ban me, but do NOT change my posts.

  65. rtfirefly says:

    I will absolutely guarantee that the Broncos, Colts, and Redskins are not having problems naming a starting QB this week.
    Rex is. Too bad, gonna have to trade up for that future HOF QB. I wanted some line depth on O and D both, and a receiver wouldn’t hurt.
    But 2 #1’s for guys like Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III?
    A bargain at the twice the price.

    • 12th man says:

      Amazing how ready for the NFL some of these kids are. Never used to be, if a kid was put in straight out of college it usually ruined his career chances. Now some of them are stars out of the gate.

      • unca_chuck says:

        Well, for every RG III or Andrew Luck you have Jamarcus purple drank, Matt Hot tub Leinart, Vince Young, or even guys like Cam Newton. Newton may rebound, or he may not. He ceratainly isn’t the golden child he once was.

        ‘Wanted to give the site a good try’? Please.

        How about you back off on the dickishness? That might help,skippy. You stretch shit that eveyone says to suit your Smith agenda, paint yourself to be the only one who didn’t like the switch, on and on.

      • twinfan1 says:

        Chuckles, I’m not going to respond to that, I should have stopped conversing with you years ago. I’m sure you’re a fine husband and father.

  66. twinfan1 says:

    Pass protection, the run game, overall play can certainly be affected by who is behind center. But never mind that obvious fact- as I’ve said and others as well, if they’re going to hang with Colin they need to take advantage of what he’s said to bring to the party (besides his running ), and that’s the vertical passing game.He’s thrown a grand total of THREE passes in the air over 30 yards, with one completion- the 57 yarder to Williams. He’s 4-5 on passes in the air of 21-30 yards. This isn’t saying I think he can’t do it, he can. But they kinda need to start designing plays to go downfield more. Zero TD’s on those. That’s not appreciably more than how often Smith went deep- 5 for 8 21-30, 2 for 6 31-40, 1 for 3 41+ air yards. That’s 8 for 17, 3 TD, 1 Pick in 8 games plus 1 and a half quarters compared to 5-8 0 TD in Kaps nearly 4 whole games. Again- I’m not knocking Kap on this, Harbaugh and Roman are not calling for it. It can’t all be put on pass protection.

    • 12th man says:

      It’s my impression the coaches have tried to reign Kap in and play the ball control game. I just don’t get that.

    • Flavor says:

      Kap had a couple of passes to Crabs that went about 30 each that I thought were super impressive. I don’t think the deep vertical game is his thing. I know his arm is strong but so was Jamarcus Russell’s. I actually think that 25-30 yard pass hitting the guy in stride is his best play. And he throws it perfectly timed and with the perfect arc, much better than Alex, just out of reach of the defender.
      Personally, I’m for Kap running MORE. He can start to beat that *8 in the box* shit if he does more play action and designed roll outs. Running Gore over and over and over was just stupid. And running Kap more often will defend against that “default defense” a little and allow him to maybe find someone down field. As he extended the play on Sunday he was looking for someone but no one was home.
      Plus, running is his strength. He could be Michael Vick at his best. And if he gets hurt, fuck it.
      We have the best back up QB in the league ready to take over if he gets knocked out.
      That’s something that no one seems to give a shit about but it’s a big deal. NO TEAM in the league has 2 stud game-ready QB’s on their roster. It’s Montana/Young shit (if you squint really hard).

      • rtfirefly says:

        Vick can play with his puppy, for what I care. As long as the puppy doesn’t get hurt.
        But we are all missing something I missed last night and picked up on ESPN today.
        RG has the best play action in the league. Right now.
        If Kappy learns that he may join the Pantheon.

      • twinfan1 says:

        Well, I didn’t give the yardage- on all passes over 20 yards, Smith is 8 for 17 273 yards 3 TD 1 INT
        Kap- 5 for 8 185 yards 0 TD 0 INT on all passes thrown over 20 yards. Here’s Kap’s splits, with a click or two, Smith’s are there too.
        As far as Colin runninng- I disagree with Denny and the conventional wisdom about 2 QBs. I would have liked to see Smith and Colin both in the game occasionally with Smith making the decions on what to with it. i

  67. NoFear49er says:

    12th man, it’s a ploy Berger uses when he figures out that of the 300 posts there, 250 belong to him and his little dog Toto. When he finds himself playing alone in his sandbox he tries to stir up some shit.

    Obviously Toto has nothing to do with anything or I couldn’t post here either. Actually it was Skeebers dis’ of “jerking off to war stories” that got his blog knocked out of my top ten.

    Yeah, watch out for that bullit/wong/razor/timmy guy, he thinks he’s a real badass, like most miniature doggies do.

    • rtfirefly says:

      Funny thing NoFear. Chihuahuas are the most dangerous thing I’ve faced since I moved to New Mexico. Coyotes, no. Bears, no. Rattlers, yeah for a bit until I learned more about them.
      Those little weasel dogs are not the least bit smart, but they do attack in packs like wolves.
      Little bastards and you’re not allowed to shoot them out here.

    • rtfirefly says:

      That’s why people have horses out here. They ignore little weasel dogs and stomp on them if they too annoying.

    • rtfirefly says:

      *are*, geez time to go back to bed. Fun being up for a few hours and I hope the flu doesn’t get into CA.

      • NoFear49er says:

        Take care of that shit Rufus. Got any Bacardi 151? Sip on that for a bit. It doesn’t do shit for the flu.

      • rtfirefly says:

        Just bedrest and antibiotics. 151 way teenager stuff.
        Had to go out in the sudden cold today to pay the rent and buy food.
        Tired that’s all. I hate to just lay in bed.

      • NoFear49er says:

        Who gave you antibiotics for the flu? The 151 Rx was better.

  68. twinfan1 says:

    Who was Skeebers?

  69. twinfan1 says:

    Smith 40
    Kap 37
    Vick 20
    Steve Young 33
    EManning 39
    McNabb 14
    Marino 16
    jeff George 10
    Elway 30
    Favre 22
    Brady 33

    Wunderlic score for 30 QBs:
    1. Ryan Fitzpatrick 48
    2. Alex Smith 40
    3. Eli Manning 39
    4. Matt Stafford 38
    5. Tony Romo 37 ( obviously that’s a cumulative score of 4 tries )
    6. Aaron Rodgers 35
    6. Matt Leinart 35
    8. Tom Brady 33
    9. Matt Ryan 32
    10. Matt Schaub 31
    11. Philip Rivers 30
    12. Matt Hasselbeck 29
    12. Marc Bulger 29
    12. Brady Quinn 29
    15. Mark Sanchez 28
    15. Peyton Manning 28
    15. Drew Brees 28
    18. Josh Freeman 27
    18. Joe Flacco 27
    20. Carson Palmer 26
    20. Jay Cutler 26
    20. Kyle Orton 26
    23. Ben Roethlisberger 25
    24. Jason Campbell 23
    25. Brett Favre 22
    25. Tim Tebow 22
    25. Chad Henne 22
    28. Bruce Gradkowski 19
    29. Vince Young 15
    30. Donovan McNabb 14
    30. David Garrard 14

  70. twinfan1 says:

    Some duplicates.

  71. twinfan1 says:

    Nver had the pleasure or displeasure, whatever is chosen, to blog with Skeebers.I was accused of being him once.

  72. unca_chuck says:

    That’s all well and good, Flav, but that’s the same thing Smith brought when he joined the league. Quick passes out of the gun, using his legs to buy time. For years and years, I’ve been saying Smith has never been allowed to run something similar to what he ran in Utah. The Niners don’t have to go 5 WRs every play, but running more spread formations and multiple WR sets has been something no coach has done for him with any kind of consistency, so I really doubt Harbaugh does it for Kappy.

    We saw that very thing last Sunday. Safe low risk passes and shit for a run game. The dishearteneing thing was the lack of changes after halftime.

  73. twinfan1 says:

    A sample question, no calculators, Chuck.:
    When rope is selling at $.10 a foot, how many feet can you buy for sixty cents?

  74. twinfan1 says:

    OK, I ‘m sorry about the calculator remark….you can use one.

  75. twinfan1 says:

    Sorry again.I guess that’s what’s called shit disturbing,

  76. Flavor says:

    Chuck— I noted that the 25-30ish yard throws that Kap throws perfectly down the sidelines are throws that Smith hits, at best, sporadically. It’s a good thing Kap can hit ’em, not a bad one. He might have the deep throw in him, we haven’t seen it. But he WAS looking for it in the Ram game, it wasn’t there. Or he couldn’t see it.
    I hate going to Niner games just cause of how long it takes to get out of there but it would be super informative to watch the plays develop live and see what he’s seeing downfield………

  77. Flavor says:

    I distinctly remember a play from my childhood at Stanford Stadium where Elway was fiddling around near his own 20, evading pressure, more evading, etc… and WHILE HE WAS LEANING BACK to avoid a defender about to tackle him he flicked the ball 60 yards to a wide open receiver at the other 20 who scored.
    Everyone just sat there dumbfounded that he could throw the ball that far while he was on his back foot going backwards……..

    • unca_chuck says:

      Yeah, I saw Elway running to his right, pretty much a full sprint and arm a ball at least 50 yards on a line to the back of the end zone against USC. Crazy.

  78. unca_chuck says:

    The only one here that gets the NFL coaches tape package is NoFear. It’s called All 22.

    It shows a much wider view, plus end zone shots, so you can see all the players. $39.99 gets you video of every game and all the playoffs.

    I think NoFear said that the Rams took the deep routes away. I know the corners were playing off the line. The Niners should have thrown slants all day. Moss had a fucking 12 yard cushion on that 3rd and 3 catch he made.

  79. twinfan1 says:

    Sideline throws ( not given by yardage).
    Left Sideline: 37 for 51 425 YD 72.5% 4 TD 2 INT 107.1 QBR
    Right Sideline: 42 for 63 531 YD 66.7% 5 TD 0 INT 119.2 QBR
    Left Sideline: 12 for 22 155 YD 52.2% 1 TD 1 INT 70.QBR
    Right Sideline 21 for 30 284 YD 70% 2 TD 0 INT 122.1 QBR

    World Record Paper Airplane Distance

    • unca_chuck says:

      If you can’t make it in football (does arena football2 count? I guess so), might as well get in the record books throwing a paper airplane.

      Dude played QB for Cal.

      White Shark just hit a 2 run homer on the Matt Cain perfect game replay on Comcast,

      10-0 Giants.

  80. twinfan1 says:

    I find it hard to believe and the search yields spotty results but Jim Hart is said to have thrown a pass 98.3 yards in the air.
    It was intercepted.

  81. unca_chuck says:

    I got 83 yards. . . . Dandy Don to Bullet Bob

    “How far was the longest pass in the NFL (not counting the run), and
    who threw and caught it?

    User comments
    The statistic is in the NFL record book. The longest pass in
    the air was 83 yards thrown by Don Meridith to Bob Hays”

    The date of this pass was November 13, 1966, when Meredith
    threw to Hayes for “95 yards” (this is the conventional statistic
    including yards gained after the catch).

    See this listing of the Cowboys’ longest plays:

    “95 – Don Meredith to Bob Hayes @ Washington, Nov. 13, 1966 (TD).”

  82. 12th man says:

    PFF has Kap as the leagues highest rated passer the last 3 games and the Rams game was not his worst:

    • twinfan1 says:

      Saw that. Always good to know. Alex wants a raise..
      (put the smiley fuck here>>>)

      • 12th man says:

        Saw which? Kap highest rated passer in the league since he became a starter or the good game Kap had against the Rams comments from Cosell?

    • twinfan1 says:

      You mean Total QBR ? Doesn’t penalize 20 yard dashes to your own end zone, lovely air throw to the big boobed blonde in row 3, running OB to make dead certain the opponent has time to score, thnking Ted is a Lab and leading him perfectly with a birch branch? That rating?

      • 12th man says:

        Ah Twin, ever turning things to suit your purpose. Started out as Kap played poorly according to you, when actually as a passer he played well, which is incidentally what I said. As a running QB I think he did well in that category too. Other than the 3 errors, one of which is on the coach, Kap played well and certainly well enough to win the game twice over. What was that phrase you used when I said exactly that? It escapes me right now. It wasn’t a win so the dimmer light bulbs only see the gloom.

      • twinfan1 says:

        “Other than the three errors..” Good stuff. We remember the query to Mrs. Lincohn, do we not? And sorry- Jimbo didn’t air mail the pitch..
        As a passer, his rating was a mediocre 83.9. Total QBR also credits his running- very Douglass like, I must say. Neither penalize the bone head plays. Now as much as I enjoy seeing you again, I reallly must get some sleep. Cheers!

      • 12th man says:

        So a question for tomorrow then! What do you think this PFF league leading thingy that Kap has means? And why is Kap’s PFF average QB thingy so much higher than Alex’s?
        Get some rest Twin, chat soon.

  83. twinfan1 says:

    Well, that’s what I mean by spotty. This says Hart, I’ve seen Testaverde listed, Chuckie’s seems to come up the most.
    . http://www.reference.com/motif/sports/longest-football-throw

    Speaking of throwing, this *is* funny, and Zeke would absolutely do this- trying to get a statue to throw a stick..

  84. twinfan1 says:

    Sort of cool to be in bed for bedtime. Well, some would say “degenerate” but I pay no attention those people.
    Chuckles, see if you can get the Hanger here, Phil needs someone to talk to when it’s 4:00 A.M. here..

  85. 12th man says:

    As a math exercise Alex has a .49 rating through 9 games and Kap has a 3.56 through 3 games. Does this qualify as a defining stat for who is playing QB at a higher level?

  86. twinfan1 says:

    You rounded off the wrong way .It’s 8 and 4. ..
    The other numbers? Silly man.That’s how many yards each has overthrown a guy standing next to him.
    Goodnight, 12.

  87. unca_chuck says:

    Something bothersome that I haven’t seen mentioned too much are all the penalties. The Niners have lost a lot of big plays to penalties. They are 29th in the league. TRHis was supposed to be a disciplined team.

    They weren’t nearly this bad last year.

    • 12th man says:

      I think some of that is switching QB, they have to adapt to what Kap is doing and his snap count etc. They also played 2 games in really loud domes, that ups the ante. Your larger point is right though, even allowing for the above it seems they keep finding new and exotic ways to commit a dumb penalty especially in critical times.

  88. unca_chuck says:

    Bobby Douglass? Yeah, he might challenge V Young for low score on the wonderlic.

    Great pass to Dick Butkis on the botched FG . . .

  89. phil fan says:

    Kap wins the Miami game all will be forgiven for a week. Harbaugh will even look a little brighter. Lose and the mild and gentlemanly 200+ posts here after the last game will swell to 400+ venom filled screeds. I will be good for 25 of them castigating the ‘offensive’ coaching.

    Fisher has JHs number and Carroll is wetting his panties looking for our visit. Season’s on the brink…

    • 12th man says:

      Maybe not quite on the brink Phil, we are up 1.5 games with 4 to play, but it sure got more interesting.
      On to more important things. How was the cyclone for you? Did the forest make it?

  90. phil fan says:

    Man, I don’t follow the inanities over at Skeebwads (that cocksucker) but if as you say it’s true that NoFear came over here because of Skeebs pet-boy bullit then I’m grateful to bullit/touchdown tommy or whoever the fuck done it. But the good ones get run off over
    there one way or another. Exceept Reno but he’s the exception

    • 12th man says:

      Phil I don’t know what the beef is you have with Skeebs but speaking for myself I don’t have an issue with him. Berger made a comment a couple of times that NF was run off Skeebs blog by Bullit’s bleating. Bergs was trying to get a rise out of NF or me or both. I have zero respect for Bullit in all his guises and now Bullit says he will “unleash hell” on me for calling him out for what he is. Honestly I literally laughed out loud when I read that. This guy is off his rocker. He is the little wizard behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz or as NF called him Toto. It’s hysterical when he makes these “do I have to remind you what you said on this date” statements. He goes back into archive stuff to make some point or other. The guy has no life, funny shit I tell ya.
      Berger is ok in my book, he is a bit overblown in his opinions but that’s blogging.

      • 12th man says:

        NF, the short answer is he can’t. Berger meant it in the way Bullshit hounds people until they get tired of him and just move on. This is apparently something laudable.

    • NoFear49er says:

      Phil, if that puts me on your list of “the good ones” I ‘pre shade it.

      How does bullit run me or anyone off a blog? If you mean it in the sense of bullit making that a much less pleasant place, yes he always has. I try to skip his crap when I read there and I find the impulse to grab someone by the throat and choke the everlovin’ shit out of them is greatly reduced because of it.

      Berger was just putting words to his farts.

      So how did Skeebers so endear himself to you?

      • Lol bullit is a joke, we’ve seen that here.

        As Chuck said Skeebs loves to blindside people on his blog prolly when he thinks they’re getting too much attention (?) Pulled that shit with me once too many times and that was enough.

  91. 12th man says:

    I was just reading that typhoon killed 200 people out in Phil’s hood.

    • NoFear49er says:

      I know Phil said it was coming but I thought it was due to hit Sunday. Not sure of Phil’s coordinates out there but since it hadn’t cut his comms I figured it passed without much damage.


    Kaepernick the highest rated Quarterback in the last three games in the NFL?
    If the scale awards bonus points for every vowel in your last name it might be true.
    Look at RGIII’s last three games and you know somebody is dealing in horseshit here.
    Robert Griffin III 46 completions 63 attempts 664 yards 9 Touchdowns 194 yards rushing.
    This PFF metric is a farce for the football challenged wannabes.

    • 12th man says:

      It’s a paid site so I don’t know what the rating is based on, what is it exactly?

      • TOUCHDOWN TOMMY says:

        Why are you asking when you posted this to begin with?
        Do you just blindly abide what suits you?
        There is something terribly wrong with the PFF assertion that Kaepernick is the highest rated QB knowing how on fire Robert Griffin III has been.

      • 12th man says:

        Why? Because PFF, a respected source that tracks players and teams has Kap as the best passer in the league. I would ask what you base your “This PFF metric is a farce for the football challenged wannabes.” is based on if you don’t know what that metric is.

  93. unca_chuck says:

    Phil, you OK out there? You posted last night (our time) so I think you made it, but just checking . . .

    • philippinefan says:

      Yeah it was a farce this super-storm. All we lost was our power.’net for 20 hours. I’ll post about it on the new thread, thanks

  94. 12th man says:

    Of the WR the Niners have, why would they decide to throw a toss to Ginn? Not exactly sure handed and looks contact averse. Nobody was catching what Kap threw but why risk it to Ginn?

  95. unca_chuck says:

    My man from SLO (Ramses Barden) mighta been able to get it. He’s 6′ 6″. Sadly the Giants (hyuk) drafted him. Ginn has been used on similar plays before, and with KW and MM out, they weren’t going to use Moss. Crabs? Not really the speed burner type that play is designed for. AJ? Too raw for that play? I hated the feeble effort to do anything about the horrendous pitch by Ginn (knock it OB, shit knock it through the end zone for a safety), but the whole thing was terrible. Cost them the game.

    The bigger question, as usual, is why run such a risky play in the 1st place? You are already down 2 WRs due to injury, and you are setting up another for a big hit.
    New thread is up . . .

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