Well, here we sit, atop the NFC West, tied with AZ. A team that has given up 932 yards in 2 games. It makes the Niners 691 given up look paltry by comparison. The Rams are being crushed by a tough early schedule, and they could very well be 1-7 at the mid-point of the season. Seattle is in full rebuild mode, and isn’t going to win many games this year. Which I think is why Jim Harbaugh is taking the slow and steady approach to build this team. As we all apparently realize, he isn’t going to change shit up much from what we have seen in recent memory. He wants to establish the run in order to, well, I don’t know, throw dump-off passes? Seriously, though, I’m of a mind that he’s going to slowly move the offense into something a little more passer-friendly as the season marches on. This year will end up a lot like last year. No one is going to run away with the division. It is really possible that the Niners, the Rams, or the Cards win it. It will come down to the division games. Get the best division record, and any tiebrerakers go to you.
Is this the prudent approach? The feeling here is, long-term this is the right way to do it. Try to run the offense you want to develop, and see who is worthy of it. The problem is, you will have growing pains, and guys like VD, who may very well be relegated to blocking duties again, will get pissed off at the direction of the team. Still and all, they CAN win the division this year. So, that has to be in the back of Harbaugh’s mind. Although, I’d think they have to change their offensive philosophy (short-term) to do it. As we saw in the 2nd half, the offense went into a stupor. Dallas didn’t seem to be doing anything differently, but the O line was getting progressively worse as the day wore on. Everyone seems to be clamoring for smaller WCO-type linemen, but it sure looked like the line was overpowered by a big dominating Dallas D line.
Alex Smith was 4-8, 48 yards in the 2nd half, with the pick, but he went back to pass 12 times. 3 sacks, and 3 scrambles. The 1st half netted 3 sacks for Dallas, but Smith went back to pass 19 times, and was 12-16, 131 yards, and 2 TDs in the 1st half.
Why the switch in philosophy? Was Harbaugh trying to protect Smith from getting hit? Was he protecting his linemen? Was he trying to slow the game down? Was he trying to show his ground-pound approach? I didn’t understand what he was trying to accomplish, but it pretty much gave the game to Dallas. The Niners had a huge TOP edge in the 1st half, even after Dallas’ 7:30 1st quarter drive that netted them nothing on the missed FG. The Niners gave it back, and more, in the 2nd half.
Regardless of the defensive shift (no more blitzing in the 4th quarter even though Romo was in the ‘gun all the time), I didn’t like how the 2nd half killed any progress that the team had made offensively in the 1st half. Growing pains? Conservative play-it-safe approach with the lead? Say it ain’t so. The last 2 coaches were scared shitless of getting a lead. They only opened up the offense when they were down by 3 scores. I don;t think Harbaugh will follow this path, but the result looked all too familiar.
On a different note, has anyone out there been to a game this year? After the raider debacle? I want to know if the tailgating situation has changed at all. I went to a game last year, and it was hunky-dory out there. Grilled some burgers with my son, threw the ball around, and had a couple beers. Has the situation changed with the new rules in place?
The Niners need to call Philly and trade them Vernon Davis for Brent Celek (sp?). Maybe Celek will roll into town in a red Lamborghini and dolphin shorts.
Alex Smith has never had a concussion until now? Doesn’t that say something about how he plays? Sure, he’s been hit by Rocky Bernard and had his shoulder seperated and injured again last year, but where are the broken ribs, the concussions? I mean, in that play where Crabtree was crying like a baby in the end zone, if Smith had held the ball a second longer, he would have thrown a TD to Crabtree. I mean, seriously, I’m not trying to be critical of Alex Smith. After his first good game in a Niner uniform he should enjoy a little respite from blog wrath. But after all the shitty lines Alex Smith has played behind, he’s never missed much time- and never had a concussion. Personally, I wouldn’t either. If I played for Mike Singletary and Mike Nolan I’d find my check downs post haste as well. After the game I’d give ’em my best Ricky Waters impersonation: “For who? For what?” But now, with Harbaugh as his coach, Smith is going to have to get physical in the pocket, wait a second longer for that receiver to show he could get open and throw him open. We’ve all seen Alex drop back and get hit mid-throwing motion, but if Smith wants to improve, he has to take some hits.
And in another directly related topic – our offensive line really, really, really needs to be traded. Trade the whole lot. Right now we have a young, run-blocking O line in a game that’s all about the pass. See anything wrong with that? There’s a market for guys like Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati and maybe even Chilo Rachal. There’s also a reason for the Niners drafting Kilgore and Person. Person is a guy who can pass block who once played OT. He’s a great candidate to slide inside. Kilgore is exactly what Iupati isn’t. He’s a smart, low center of gravity kinda player who can be good in short yardage because being shorter gives him a natural advantage with his lower pad level. Not to mention he has great feet and can pass block, pull and trap. What the Niners need to do is overhaul their offensive line to emphasize pass blocking. It’s a weird predicament Harbaugh’s in: on the one hand he wants to go Bill Walsh style WCO – which would mean short, smart, white guys like the Green Bay Packers have. On the other hand, Harbaugh favors a more power run oriented WCO approach. I can see how he’d be hesitant to act or trade, but trading his offensive linemen is exactly what he must do. It’s the core problem on the Niners – not the secondary, but the offensive run blocking O line that can’t protect long enough to let the deep routes develop. It won’t change, even with time and O line maturity. Alex Smith hasn’t been physical in the pocket because he only gets 3.5 seconds to make a decision. That’ll wear on ya.
you’re right , smith still has a habit of making one or two boneheaded play per game !
horrible int’s and not seeing open recievers or two of his biggest blunders ! if he doesn’t shape up after two more games or so it points to another l-o-n-g season of mediocrity for us !
Spit there’s one major component that makes this OL somewhat of a swinging gate.
New Center, Goodwin is still learning the ropes with this Group.
Granted, we get blitzed ad nauseum but, the entire scheme is new this year.
Watch Staley too, he’s been targeted as frequently as Anthony has. I did notice that Anthony kept his butt down more last week and seemed to be under control more often. Since Harbaugh wants to feature the run, these guys can get it done with some more time together.
But, I totally agree and, I’ve echoed the same sentiments, we don’t Pass Pro well enough and every opponent knows it. It’s as much on the scheme and the QB as it is on the OL.
Everything has to be done in rhythm. We haven’t found a sniff of rhythm to this point.
some rythm
http://heartofmetal.niceboard.com/t9791-best-rhythm-guitarist
also two rookies from last year , raw rachal , new system , no camp AND a new center all tell me we’re in for some growing pains on the 0-line !
oooh , norris out and double moves vs. clements !
nice !
Having Norris out this week in Cincy should open some plays for Bruce Miller perhaps,
With a rainy forecast I’d expect a heavy run script once again.
Do we dare to double move Clements a time or 2?
I see this game as another step into the playbook for the TEs and, maybe to utilize Miller in some FB receiving assignments.
Would be nice to see what the eff Crabtree and Kyle can do together too. I don’t think Ginn scares anyone as a WR but, he can clear some zones.
NJ49er, I don’t know that rain without the freezing temps or high winds would slow our passing game at all. Although it should make man coverage a little trickier defending it.
Also, this would be a great game for the O-line to get some OJT in run blocking. The Bengals being a lot easier to run on than pass on albeit Nate and Manny are more than familiar with Frank’s tendencies.
It’s my opinion that some of the running plays Harbaugh keeps in the game plan solely to keep the box loaded and make the defenses easier for Alex to read and throw on.
Given that we are going to run I think it’s Frank that needs to step up his game a bit before crying too much about folks not finishing.
Chuck, I saw your comment on the previous thread. I also got the impression from some of the comments to the SFGate story that parking lot festivities have turned rowdy and somewhat prohibitive for the 9er Faithful? Likely for the same reasons, less of the home crowd, more of the visitors. Jed will have the pressure to avoid TV blackouts too, unless Harbaugh starts to change the culture.
Trust me, I’ve had an SF tailgate on gameday on my bucket list for years.
Our oldest Son got engaged on the JumboTron there too.
Lucky kid had a friend from College who had Season ticket connections in the mid 90s.
He’s been there 3 times. I hope to partake at least once.
Out here I’ve always had access to NYG/NYJ tickets through friends so, when the 9ers played here I was definitely in the minority.
But to the NY Fans’ credit it never got ugly or unsafe to share the premises with the ‘wrong’ colors on.
Philly on the other hand, is a throwdown.
You wear your colors only to scrap with the City of Brotherly Love locals.
I’d venture to say they’d give the Black Holer’s a pretty good run.
Philly Fans will spend the entire game heckling the visitors’ fans and likely miss everything they showed up to see on the Field. It is an experience though.
this game will give us a chance to see two key things !
can we come back from a loss
and
will we improve from week to week !
or will we take one step forward and two steps back and fall apart like we’ve done over the last several seasons !
On the topic of the line, I think this year is an extended audition for this group. Harbaugh will watch and evaluate. Can these guys, or at least some of them, respond to coaching and reinvent themselves as WCO linemen? If they still stink in December, they will be shuffling off to Buffalo or Carolina or Oakland.
So far, I am not impressed with Goodwin. I see clearly why the Saints cut him loose. Pro Bowler perhaps, but I think most of that was playing between two beasts in Evans and Nicks. In any event, a long term solution at center needs to be found.
Both guards are big strong run blockers with very questionable technique and lost in pass pro. Both have raw athleticism but there is a lot of work to be done there and results need to be shown soon.
Davis might yet be a good tackle if he gets the technique down. Staley will always be a smart guy who is very limited at tackle. If Davis ends up on the left, I would give Boone a shot at RT and slide Staley inside at guard, assuming we cannot trade him. Boone is the most ‘natural’ right tackle on the roster and has worked hard. I’d like to see what he can do next year.
Frankly, I’m pretty amazed that Smith hasn’t had any concussions before this. He regularly absorbs 50+ sacks a year, plus innumerable more hits getting the ball out. Like 120 a year. He may not look the part, but the guy is pretty tough.
It isn’t a big wonder why he checks down so much. He rarely has the time to look downfield.
I guess it really is about finding their identity. harabugh is holding a long audition. The problem being, I wish they would look more at the game at hand rather than down the road. I get it, but it still is aggravating. can’t they do both? I still don’t know what that 2nd ha;f was all about. 16 attmpts in the 1st half, and only 8 in the 2nd. This is where I’d like to see roll-outs. Overshift the line, and roll right. Create time to get the ball out to SOMEONE downfield.
Yeah, NJ, it was weird to see so many Dallas fans at that game last week. There’s never been that many out of town fans in the stadium at any time in the last 40+ years that I’ve been going to games. How that affected the parking lot, I don’t know.
Now Smith is dissed for not having a lot of concussions? Obviously, Spitfuck has had a few.
Obviousl;y, the “checkdown Charlie” nincompoopery comes from people who don’t pay attention. If you look at the games where the coaches have been forced to give him free rein, yoyu’d see that he shines when given that latitude-the second half against GB, 4th quarter against NO last year, that Texan’s game when he came off the bench, , the final against AZ last year- a few more if you need more schooling. The checkdown is a coache’s issue, and a protection issue.
I actually agree that Alex is better in a passing-happy attack. Maybe because he isn’t constantly in third-and-forever with a target on his chest. In any event, I’d rather do that than the “Three Clouds of Dust and a Punt” offense we have been running…
The thing is, Teams go into different coverages when they know a team is going to throw all the time. The dreaded 6 DB, keep everything in front of you defense. Some teams, when up by 21 at the half, play it softer than if the score was tied. That Texan game, and the GB game from 2 years ago ring a bell.
Look, I’ve been advocating for 4 years to at least nominally build in SOME plays that work to Smith’s advantage. No-huddle. Spread formations. Roll outs. Every coach Smith has had (and Harbaugh appears to be following the same path) seems to want Smith to stand in the pocket like a Ben Worthlessberger statue and throw/take the shot. NONE of the coaches in his time in the NFL have even remotely played to what he brings. The Indy game was a prime example. Goere had a big run early. Score tied. The Niners got the ball with 2 minutes. Smith executed the 2 minute offense to perfection. The Niners score to close the half. Do the Niners go up-tempo, or no-huddle at any point in the rest of the game? No. They run up the middle and seem content to try and trade punts, on the road, against a much better team. In the end, of course, the defense can’t hold down Indy all 2nd half, and the Niners lose by 4.
I think there has been maybe one game where they let it fly with Smith early and often. It was the Jacksonville game a few years ago. The Niners scored early, often, and won pretty easily.
The poiint, Chuck, he didn’t beat those defenses by “taking what they gave him”, he beat them throwing the ball downfield. The game logs show that.
Grump,
I think it’s a good idea to take both of our OTs and move them inside to guard. I don’t think Anthony Davis is a left tackle. I just don’t see him making an upgrade in five years. I see him downgrading to guard. I like your idea of moving Staley to guard also. It’s like what the Saints did with Nicks and Evans. I don’t need to tell you they took two OTs from college and turned them into OG pros. We’d be taking two OTs in the pros in a “supposed” power run blocking scheme and sliding them inside to guard to create a pass pro offensive line. I think that’s a great idea.
I think Kilgore is Goodwin’s replacement, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Kilgore at guard either. I like that kid. He wears a camo hat, he’s short and he’s all business. You can tell he’s smart, and you can tell he’s a technician. Fastest shuffle time at the combine means quick feet. He was also the fastest linemen in his class at the combine, so that means he’ll be able to get to the second level. He’s short so he’ll have natural leverage through a lower pad level. Solari found himself a gem there. The Niners need to continue to let Solari find late round gems from small schools. Solari flew out to Montana and he spent 3 hours on skype with Kilgore.
If I were the Niners I’d be looking to trade Chilo Rachal and Mike Iupati. Then I’d be looking to find offensive linemen in the draft who were all pass blocking and very little run blocking. Walsh used to set-up the run through the pass. That’s the WCO way. If Harbaugh wants a power run game, in an era when the league, because of the rules, is all pass, then Harbaugh won’t be successful as an NFL coach. Even though Harbaugh is brand spankin’ new, he must adapt his game. If he wants a long NFL coaching career, Harbaugh must be able to change with the rules and the NFL tendencies. The way to do that right now is QUICKLY create an offensive line that can pass protect. This, not our fuckin’ terrible secondary, is the Niners’ top priority. I don’t believe this is audition any longer. They’ve been up on the stage for a long time, and Simon Cowel has seen enough. IF THE LINE CAN’T PASS PROTECT IN A GAME THAT IS ALL PASSING, HARBAUGH MUST CHANGE THE LINE. If Harbaugh can’t address to O line (this one’s for Dennis)….. Then we must, FIRE HARBAUGH!!!
Davis is very young. I’d give him until next year before going that route – but it is certainly a possibility if he doesn’t make it at tackle. Kilgore has a real shot somewhere inside. Maybe we play him at guard and Staley at center? Staley is smart enough to make all the line calls, and won’t be a liability in pass pro there. It would be an off-season-long project for him to learn that position, though, and Boone (or a draftee) has to step up and take the tackle spot first.
Davis is young but he’s still getting beat like a rented mule. I don’t know why Harbaugh thinks it’s okay to put a guy at ROT who can’t pass protect. The Niners can’t afford to continue to game plan around AD if they want Alex Smith to develop and see what he has inside. You want TD passes thrown and deeper plays developed? You want Alex Smith to complete passes down field so Frank Gore isn’t faced with 14 in the box? You gotta move Anthony Davis inside right now and if he gets good enough, maybe move him back to ROT down the road.
Staley is smart enough to play anywhere, but I don’t like tall offensive linemen. Alex Boone is 6’8″. No thank you. Iupati and Snyder are 6’6″. Goodwin and Kilgore are 6’3″ Now you’re talkin’. I want short, powerful offensive linemen with low centers of gravity who can cut block you and win the short yardage game with lower pad levels. I still think Staley slides to the right side because I think he’s too tall to play center or guard.
If it were me, I’d trade Davis, Boone, Iupati and Rachal for short, powerful offensive linemen who are pass blockers first and foremost and then run blockers as an after thought. I want short, white dudes who are pass protectors on our offensive line. Look at the Green Bay Packers and New England Patriot lines. Their offensive lines are cracker central.
This is interesting. Look at the offensive lines of the two most potent passing teams in the NFL.
The Packers’ offensive line is five white boys – LOT- Clifton (6’5″), LOG – Lang (6’4″), Center – Wells (6’2″), ROG – Sitton (6’3″) and ROT – Bulaga (6’5″).
The two Packer tackles are taller to pass block and compete with pass rushers, but the interior linemen are all shorter. Notice a pattern? How about the Patriots?
4 out of the 5 New England Patriots are white boys, with the one token being ROG Waters who just came over from the Chiefs. My bet is last year’s Pats’ O line was cracker heaven. Right now, their O line is ….. LOT – Light (6’4″), LOG – Mankins (6’4″), Center – Connolly (6’4″), ROG – Waters (6’3′), ROT – Vollmer (6’8)
Out of ten offensive linemen on two the most prolific passing teams in the NFL (Pats and Packers), only one is white, and only one is taller than 6’5″. Is it the line that makes the qb, or the qb who makes the line?
Either way, the Niners have a guard in Mike Iupati who is 7’13” (which is 8’1″ in Canada). The Niners’ website lists Iupati 6’5″, but I’ve seen him listed at 6’7″ and I don’t believe 6’5″. It’s not like anything Jed York is believable anyway.
Snyder is 6’6″, Boone 6’8″ and I’m betting Iupati is really 6’7″. Dump those fuckers. Get me some short white boys. Who did Solari just pickup? Person – White boy, 6’4″, and Kilgore, white boy, 6’3″. Solari for president.
Well, I’m wrong about Iupati. I just did a search and found pictures of Iupati standing next to Staley and they’re the same size unless Joe had his cleats on and Mike was barefoot in the picture which is highly unlikely. But I don’t trust anything Jed York. Nationwide search? My ass.
But the reason Iupati looks taller is because he plays so upright (not a good thing). Remember when at the combine people were saying Iupati couldn’t pass block? Well, it’s a technique thing and I’ll tell you what, when Harbaugh talks about the O line losing because the D line was, “Beating us with their pad level” I bet he’s talking directly to Mike Iupati. Either way, Iupati needs to learn to play much lower. Some guys are naturally built that way. Iupati isn’t. It will always be awkward for Iupati to pass block.
I think the Niners have all the pieces of the offensive line puzzle on the team, except for one, and those other pieces just aren’t assembled right. The only thing the Niners are missing to convert this team from run blocking to pass blocking is a true LOT. The question is whether or not we use yet another first round pick on a LOT next year. I don’t think you ever, EVER use a first round pick on an offensive linemen UNLESS it’s LOT. Guard? Jesus. Maybe as a backup plan. But you don’t use a first rounder on a projected guard.
I think the Niners should make Kilgore and Anthony Davis their guards, make Staley their ROT, and keep Goodwin at center. I think they should trade Iupati, Rachal and Snyder. With those draft choices, maybe they can package up all their choices for one a first, or if that’s a total pipe dream, maybe the Niners have use yet another first on a LOT because, again, the only first you should use on the O line is for a LOT, and we still don’t have a legit one.
Right now, ESPN has five potential LOT listed as potential first rounders. USC’s Matt Kalil, Stanford’s Jonathan Martin, Rile Reiff, Andrew Datko and Levi Adcock.
I don’t know what the bigger need on this team is, left offensive tackle or cornerback, but I do know that this offensive line needs to be shuffled. And I also know that I love me some coffee, and no, I won’t be switching to decaf.
“And I also know that I love me some coffee, and no, I won’t be switching to decaf.”
dude decaf ???
imo you don’t just need decaf , you might be the only person who could convince me that all the ritalin given to kids might jsut be a good idea !
imho what you could use the most is some …
Methylphenidate
Well, Carl Nicks of the Saints is 6-5. So a tall guy can play guard damned well – IF he gets his damned ass up and his shoulders down. The problem with our line, even with Staley, is too often they don’t. We have sucked in short yardage running since the last days of Larry Allen. Low man always wins in that situation. Whether its coaching, or uncoachable players, something needs to change.
I definitely don’t think it’s Solari. I think it’s the players on the offensive line, and I think Harbaugh needs to address it post haste.
And just who had a hand in acquiring that entire offensive line?
The nation-wide search for a new GM needs to be addressed post-haste.
calm down you guys !
staley is a good LT and the cat’s meow at RT !
iupati is a beast !
davis imo will be ok as a RT ! (I HOPE )
goodwin is a pro bowl center
and rachal will be a good G given the right coaching and enough time !
(if not we have snyder and a 2nd rd pick in 2012 and free agency to go !)
that makes FIVE 0-linemen who can play and last time i checked that’s just how many you need to have in a football game !
either that or you’re not sure that harbaugh is a better he3ad coach than nolan or singletary !
;D
Rob, our OL stinks on ice. I was just watching the NFL Net where Brian Baldinger was reviewing and highlighting how our line just got absolutely no “push” vs the Dallas front. They where either holding the LOS or penetrating our backfield. Gore had nowhere to run because, well, there was nowhere to run.