! ! ! ! Can’t get any lower. Still I feel I’m sinking ! ! ! !
Outshined by Chris Cornell and Soundgarden. The theme song for your SF Giants 2026 team.
In a season full of pitching debacles and crushing losses, they managed to pull one out for the ages.
Yes, the biggest blown 9th inning league in the 125 year history of the team. They were 2,208-0 when leading by 6 or more in the 9th. Til today.
Up 9-3 in the top of the 9th, the team could not even get an out before Cincy tied it. Bivans came in and really had no clue. Not sure why whoever the interim manager even was didn’t pull him a little faster, but I think it was pretty obvious Bivens didn’t have it. He gave up the longest home run into the cove that I’ve ever seen. Then again, Smith came in and nuked the joint. And the rest was errors, walks and general rookie ball crap.
I guess the lockout is a blessing.
For Dolly . . .
Forty Niners Forever 
Giants now need to play .650 ball to get to 85 wins. Yeah, sure.
Time to get real. Time to sell, sell, trade, whatever it takes to get goog, young talent. Nobody is safe except Eldridge, maybe Schmitt, too…
Well, good if not goog…
Really hate losing this type of game. Feel sorry for Webb but he’s probably used to it by now.
Such a clusterfuck, Devers gets a 9th inning leadoff walk wants to stay in and is pissed off when Cox pr, and doesn’t even steal anyway.V says in this contradiction BS that Devers is one of are best runners going 1st to 3rd? WTF does that mean. Lee flys out and of course Adamashit hits into a DP !!
Yeah Devers will take his share of crap with his finger wave, but V should as well bringing in your fastest runner to make something happen and he anchors him at 1st..Gawd I hate Vitello he has to go!!! His bromance with Adameshit in the LU fucking up everyway possible and hitting him 6th??? Incredibly STUPID!!
Wasted effort by a Webb pitching a CG gem with of course NO FUCKIN OFFENSE in a 2-1 loss and the SWEEP!! Flight home should be miserable for these guys as it should be!!
Without checking, I count 6 times the Giants have been swept — Snakes (twice), Yanks, Rays, Phils and Marlins — and none by the Giants. That’s minus 18. And yet they’re 8-5 vs. three NL 1st-place teams — Dodgers, Brewers, Braves. Not sure what it all means, but one thing’s certain — they suck.
We can agree or disagree Willie and Xoot about Webb being traded. I respect that, albeit, I am with snarkk, insofar as attempting to trade Webb, while he still has value. Likewise, I sincerely feel that Webb – as competitive as he is – would like to spend more than 1 season (2021) with a contending team. His subtle previous complaints about the team should be noted as evidence of this.
So, I will preface my question with this fact – for 9 of 10 years this team has been in a rebuilding mode or maybe not; let’s call it being satisfied with playing .500 . . . What are your guys suggestions to get this team beyond .500?
I don’t have any. But Webb makes 28-30 starts a year and will make 15 or so more this year and is under contract for 2 more. If you trade him you basically guarantee they lose most of them. Agreed, this season is lost but I’d like them to win as many games as possible (and I think Posey/ownership would too), like they did vs Braves. Trading Webb mitigates against that profoundly. Not just this year but next as well.
Every time I see words “bunch of top prospects” I cringe in utter disbelief this would be an automatic W if Giants traded Webb away. Posey got 7 guys by trading away Rogers and Doval–the best one so far is Gilbert a fringe ML at best. There is no way Giants get back any player near as talented as Webb imo. Nor for Arraez or Schmitt Lee Eldridge.
Whatever is going on, Webb is not getting traded. This team isn’t as bad as they seem but the pitching is the fucking problem. And the front office will always call it a soft rebuild as they diddle around with Brebbia aisle shit.
Like I’ve been saying, keep Arraez and get rid of the garbage. Chappie, Devers, etc. Get what you can for Ray now cuz he’s not gonna be good next year.
Point being, if they had 2 more decent starting pitchers, a closer, and a couple pen guys, this would be a playoff team. And we needed this same shit last offseason.
Which is why this clusterfuck of a season pisses me off. They are close but Mahler, Dookie, the invisible Bader, and the small moves they did weren’t nearly enough.
Yep. A quick glance at the 2027 free agent pitchers wasn’t too inspiring, unfortunately . . . I assume Skubal is not in play. Michael King, anyone?
Ramos, Bader and Adames are expendable right now. Not that Koss is good or that anyone will want Willy. Or that anyone in the hunt will want to give up first rate mlb arms. But good prospects may be available. The rotation and pen will need just as much investment this winter as they needed last. Maybe ownership will listen this time. Or maybe the owners will be preoccupied dealing with the strike or lockout they foist on us over their cap dream.
so, I dunno. Re-sign Arraez, even with a pay bump. Don’t trade Webb. Those seem like the only sure bets to me.
of course, I think Eldridge, Schmitt, Lee, Chapman and Devers should stay. I can’t see dumping the latter two just to free up money.
yeah thumbs up. All guys I want to watch play, for the Giants instead of somebody else.
As much as Adames is an excruciating watch, by virtue of the position, he’s still a more useful (and less expensive) player than Devers. If I could wish away one of those mistakes, Devers is the easy choice for me.
the years on their contracts — astonishing, really. May be long term DH value in Devers. Adames, by virtue of his position, should be easier to move. He’s no longer the hot shot kid though.
Sure, and I’d feel even better about being rid of him if another potential Zaidi era gift to Buster, JLevel, was tearing it up at AA or above. I suppose Casey could be what they hoped Luciano would be for a season or two.
So, avoiding 100 losses is the reason to not deal Webb? That’s a lqughably low ambition and lodestar for whether or not to trade assets.
He will NEVER have a higher value than right now. He is far more valuable in the hands of a playoff contender than for this POS Giants team, which can’t score enough runs to win games when he holds the other team to 2 or fewer runs in 8 or 9 frames. He is an appendix, when healthy he doesn’t necessarily do jack to help get to the playoffs, but if he gets hurt, that’s a problem and trade opportunity wasted. Even if he wins a few over a younger pitcher brought up, does 96 losses really mean the team is better than losing 100? To Posey, to the fans, to Baer and the PR machine? Are we fans to win games, or to mitigate a PR problem?
Plus, no guarantee he is any good for next year or the year after next of his 2 years left on the contract. Nor any guarantee the 2027 Giants are not still a POS team the next two years, and he’s wasted again. He could blow out his elbow — it’s got a lot of mileage. Let him blow it out on somebody else’s dime AFTER the Giants score some young talent, including a top 5-10 prospect pitcher and some outfield and/or Pen talent.
Do a good Giant a solid and trade his ass to a team for whom he can pitch in the post season. I doubt he’ll have a problem with leaving.
As much animosity as Big 3 position players draw, the offense has been for most part NOT the biggest issue–it’s pitching, starting and relieving. By trading away one of the few if not only reliable guys you have you are only making Giants problems worse, not better. they’re going to strain to find enough SPs (let alone reliable pen guys) to get through this season alone–trading Webb away makes next season worse immediately. This was year to add a high priced FA SP and Giants passed in offseason. Next year options aren’t near as good unless you want Gausman part II.
They have position players in the pipeline, likely 2 years away and should get another one in draft at #4. Tanking won’t help them as they can’t draft higher than #10 next season.
BTW, hitting 100 losses can be a good thing. Cathartic.
Look at the 1985 squad. Rosen brought in the Humm Baby at season’s end, and the rest is history. 2 years, into the playoffs. 4 years, the W Series.
different world. Lurie tried to sell the team to Tampa then, almost right after the WS. Franchise values and ownership ambitions are a lot larger now. And the Giants own all of Northern California.
Consider the historical distance. Lurie offered Haas a million bucks if he’d move the A’s. Wally had bought the team at the urging of Kaiser and Trefethen and other Oakland rich guys specifically to keep it in Oakland, so he said no. He did agree to let Lurie claim Santa Clara county as giants territory, so Lurie could try to get a new park built there. (My source is a Bancroft Library oral history interview with Haas.)
As long as they’re making money, the owners will be pleased. Open question whether you need to win regularly to do that. See the Red Sox. See the Mets. See the Giants.
A million bucks. That’s the best Lurie could do. Of course, it was probably his opening offer. But still.
A mill was still something in the 80s.
Yeah. About 5 or 6 today.
Arraez
Lee
Eldridge
Devers
Schmitt
Chapman
Adames
Ramos
Bader
On paper this lineup (in no particular order), when healthy and operating at the CONSISTENT level IT SHOULD, looks pretty formidable to me. I know I’m a dummy, but how in HELL can this line up NOT work? SO, I feel we should stand-Pat, keep everyone!!
I agree. I’m not sure Bader is better than the other speedy OFs on the roster. And Adames will always disappoint. But it’s not a bad LU. Should be fun to root for.
It’s the pitching.
The Giants’ lineup is stuck in mediocrity primarily because of severe, localized dead spots that completely kill any offensive momentum. While table-setters Luis Arráez and Jung Hoo Lee are doing their jobs by hitting well north of .320, the middle and bottom of the order are failing to capitalize. Highly compensated anchors like Devers (hovering around .240 with 90+ strikeouts) and lead clown, Adames (flirting with the low .220s) simply aren’t providing the elite run production or consistent power expected of them. When your primary run-producers are striking out at massive clips and failing to sustain a basic on-base percentage, it forces the offense to rely entirely on stringing together consecutive singles, leaving the team near the bottom of the league in overall run efficiency.
Compounding these personnel struggles is Tony Vitello’s frustrating tactical approach to the batting order, which frequently misallocates player strengths. By stubbornly sticking to rigid, traditional roles or over-shuffling hot and cold hands, the lineup construction routinely strands Arráez and Lee on base without adequate protection behind them. For example, Chapman was the “Invisible Man” in April and May. When Chapman was completely lost, he kept getting rolled out in premium run-producing spots, killing rallies behind Luis Arráez and Jung Hoo Lee. Vitello has done the same thing with Adames.
Chapman was striking out at a brutal clip, failing to drive the ball, and providing almost zero protection in the middle of the order. When your $151 million cornerstone is carrying a sub-.200 average and non-existent power numbers over the first 60 days, it paralyzes the entire offense.
Rather than building a progressive, high-OBP flow to pressure opposing pitchers, the current structural layout creates massive disconnects that make it incredibly easy for opposing staffs to navigate through the few real threats the team possesses.
Anyone that thinks this team will get better next season, with this LU is crazy. Particularly when you couple this with putrid pitching.
This team sucks the big baloney pony.
Well, good morning. Anything happen yesterday for our favorite team?
Lineups? Who cares? Look at the big picture. Yesterday was the latest low point in a crap season swirling down the toidy. How low can this go? Probably a lot.
Swept by the Fish. Losing game 3 of the sweep despite a complete-game, sweet 2 run wasted effort by Webb. Following a game 2 that was a nominee of many for worst game of the year with 4 errors in 3 innings, and other tomfoolery we all saw. The kicker in the getaway debacle being Devers refusing to come out in the 9th in an obvious, legitimate pinch run situation. What, Devers thinks he can steal? Score from 1st on a double? Does he give an S about this team? This looks like something breaking out in the open (insubordination, I think it’s called) that has been bubbling in the background nobody has wanted us to see.
Nice cherry on top. Lousy offense with a chaser being a ridiculous, public, embarrassing tantrum by your biggest contract. Kruk this morning called it not a good look. Duh.
I’ve been paying attention to MLB ball over half a century. I’ve never seen that. So funny with Fox standing there at first naturally looking clueless with Devers wagging his finger at Fox to go back. And, the first base coach (who?) apparently agreeing with Devers — trying to shoo Fox back to the dugout. Huh? I’m not sure but I think the 1st bse ump was saying he’s gotta go because Fox had walked onto the field. Anyway, I digress.
Finally, Devers leaves the bag in a huff, walks pissed off to the dugout covering his face with his helmet obviously yelling expletives. Then he pushes a coach aside in the dugout. Meanwhile, the imbroglio apparently makes Vitello and coaches forget to tell Cox to steal, which is the only reason he is on first base. So, Adames does the Marlins a solid and does what he does very well — hits a room service GIDP to end the latest ignominious version of Giants follies.
Devers’ the Diva show is the talk of the sports talk and online media this morning, obviously. Local and national. Great, not only is this team crap, but there is now obvious trouble in the clubhouse. Tony should go, Devers has to go, trade this guy, trade that guy. Why would Arraez want to stay, come back to this S show? Just some of the talk going on. Not baseball talk, not talk about Webb’s great start. No, talk about a sinking ship. Mixing metaphors, some kind of high colonic is needed for this team, clean things up.
Buster, ownership, this is an absolute, embarrassing clown show — WTF ?
Hey Loo, if you are checking in at all, I hope all is well with you . . . I think I know why you are pissed off right now and not posting. For what it’s worth – I totally agree with you. I hope you do not stop posting.
BTW, yeah, Devers was not very tradeable before. But, after yesterday’s public Diva episode, he’s turned radioactive for trades now and in the future.
Given the trajectory of this season, I think more fingers are pointing to the dugout rather than Devers.
That will play little to no role in his being traded.
The determining factor is how much are the Giants willing to eat.
I mean, hey I still can’t believe we got the Braves to pickup 100% of Melonhead’s deal.
So, shit could happen. But I think it’s gonna take a big bite by us to get a deal done.
Chapman’s ops for June is over 1.000. Coincidentally, so is his ops when he bats 7th in the order (significant PAs there). I think he likes to bat behind Willy to soothe the kid’s ego.
V has no control over this team in part because he mishandles the LU but more importantly becz in general no one respects him. I think it’s simple and apparent.
if they can trade Devers by the deadline for any pitcher(s), the team will improve.
https://x.com/ncstl_/status/2068802724230246699?s=46&t=k0FDC_rVBvlG86Y-OHTiNQ
There’s a new thread BTW.
The only thing stupider than Devers whining about being pinch-run for is Vitelli not sending Cox through TWO batters.
The knock on Melvin and Mr. Kotter was the fact they couldn’t just set a lineup and stick with it. Melvin did what V is doing. Moving guys up and down the line up on a daily basis. Mr. Kotter had the revolving door lefty/righty/platoony thing at every position AND interchangeable lineups. Say what you will about the game, but players seem to want to have some kind of consistency regarding their spot in the order. Moving Chappie down was a good call. As long as they keep him there. Lee has betted all over the place. Same with Schmitt and everyone else. Minus Adames.
Schmitt or Chappie should never be leading off. Adumbass should NEVER be batting 4th. Lee should NEVER be batting 9th.
I think they were so flummoxed by Diva Devers’ act, they forgot all bout stealing 2nd. I don’t put that on Cox. V and his coaches blew it.
What other explanation can there be?
BTW, IMO they’ve wasted the call up of another player — Cox. He has barely played. Why not play him over Gilbert — the lefty/righty thing be damned. Cox came up on fire at the AA batter’s box. He gets up here, and Pfffffft, barely a sniff or two off the pine.
Cox seems logical to be sent back when Ramos is up, which apparently is imminent. They need to play Ramos ASAP to show he’s OK, because he has to be in the tradeable group…
Fucking seeing Gilbert in the lineup everyday is mind-blowingly stupid. Esp vs LHP.
Play Cox and be done with it. We’ve seen enough out of Gilbert.
And what the actual fuck happened to Bader? Did he go into witness protection?
He doesn’t even qualify as a hologram.
One other explanation: besides a greater likelihood of scoring from first on a double, Cox also scores more often from second on a single, which has been an issue for SF. Taking a chance that he gets to second via an out or hit/BB vs. risking being thrown out by Mack (35% CS rate, he also nailed Gilbert earlier) doesn’t seem crazy to me. Vitello already does enough other stupid stuff.
OTOH, they are 15 games under, so WTF, go for it . . . .
Lot of noise across baseball few managers have complete autonomy over the lineup. the guys in analytics room have their “suggestions” that likely don’t leave lot of room for maneuvering. One thing that I doubt is ignored would be splits vs. handedness. I can’t stand Gilbert but he’s Ok vs RHP/struggles big time vs LHP.
Arguing over where guys should bat is zzzz to me. Each guy knows he’s got 3+ ABs every game and lineup for most part is pretty steady. Wherever you are, do your job and try not to make an out.
If each of us made out a lineup, I’d bet the moon there would be 20 different ones and if we included friends/neighbors etc. there’d be even more. It’s another sign of different world–an MVP level 50 HR hitter like Ohtani never would have hit leadoff years ago, for Bochy either. Now he’s got rings doing it and Roberts is a genius.
Willie, the point here is players LIKE to bat in a spot and stay there. Batters get pitched differently depending on who is in front of them, who is behind them, and where they are in the batting order.
If you are moving up and down the lineup, you don’t get the same kind of consistent ABs.
If you are Lee and you are batting in front of Gilbert, you likely won’t see a strike, If you are Lee batting in front of Schmitt, you’ll see different pitches. It absofuckinglutely matters where guys bat in a lineup and if they are there consistently.
generalizing about what players like? Pussy and gambling, maybe. Otherwise, it’s just a guess.
Tell that to Glenn Burke
he’s dead
From a nbcbasports piece on rainbow gate, quoting Manfred’s latest letter to Sen. Josh Haul Ass Hawley. Looks like V and his people really did fuck up. Dimwits. And the players are not forced to wear the pride unis. “beginning in 2023, MLB stopped allowing teams to wear commemorative uniforms for their celebration days. The Giants and Los Angeles Dodgers, however, requested the use of their Pride emblem to be grandfathered into the new rule as exceptions, though players would not be required to wear the uniform/hats.
“‘Unfortunately, this year the Giants communication with players was inadequate and not clear,” Manfred wrote. “Some players apparently did not understand that they had the option to wear their normal uniform and elected to add messages to their hats bearing the [Pride] logo as a result.
“‘The Giants players were allowed to wear the hats with the biblical references for the entire game. After the game had concluded, my office issues a routine oral warning about the uniform policy violation — unfortunately it was issued before we became aware of the Giants’ lapse in communication.
“‘The players were never fined nor disciplined, nor will they ever be.'”
Good clarification xoot. I hope this BS is in the proverbial rear view mirror now.
So, Hentges guessed right?
makes simple common sense. Some guys use the pink bats on breast cancer day, some don’t; some use the blue bats on prostate cancer day, some don’t. Some wear the rainbow hat, some don’t. Just don’t try a shamrock hat or tomato hat, no matter what ethnic promotion the team has going.
As I read Manfred’s CYA response above, what a pile. Maybe there’s more to it, IDK.
I can’t blame Vitello for this dust up. This promo uni has been going on since before 2023, long before he showed up. The Giants front office administration is entirely to blame (if Manfred is not lying), and they actually did fail to give the bigots their required notice of being “allowed” to express their bigotry.
Like I said before, the Johnsons should just cut a sufficiently ridiculous check to their MAGA buddies running amok in DC and the DOJ and/or Congressional performative “investigation” of the Giants will go away.